Russian–Ukrainian war

@Adamant1 Let me refer to this one specific sentence. I truly hope that you are making a sincere mistake and were not checking other threads. I truly hope that you want to address something, not continue your narrative, which is not politically neutral despite your own statements.

Here is one clear statement that the mass-removal of name:ru is a vandalism, upvoted 10 times: Місце російської мови на об'єктах на території України - #53 by _sev

Here is another similar statement, upvoted 4 times: Місце російської мови на об'єктах на території України - #60 by Myazyk

How come edits removing Russian names from objects in the Ukraine aren’t dealt with months later but any edit done in Ukraine from a Russian

The country is in a state of war. Russia deliberately targeted the energetic infrastructure of Ukraine. Thus, many cities were with a limited supply of electricity. A lot of people were displaced. They had more important stuff to do 6-18 months ago than patrol OSM.

To answer from another perspective: not everything is noticed in time. As I know, DWG had to redact thousands of changeset, but some people made vandalism on OSM their motto. We were fighting with the mass removal of name:ru even just a couple of days ago.


For the avoidance of doubt (and I made this explicit in at least one of the block messages I was responsible for) most of the complaints that the DWG got that led to the first round of blocks here were from within Ukraine (actually mostly from Ukrainian speakers within Ukraine).

Most of what you have said simply does not align with the facts.


I’m sure someone said it somewhere in another discussion that’s not this one. You’d have to agree that’s then people involved in this conversation taking a stance against it when they are specifically asked what their position about it is. Which is what I’m talking about and mainly concerned about. I could really care less if someone randomly commented its bad in another discussion that’s in another language and has nothing to do with this. Especially if people are going to respond by hiding comments and accusing people of just hating Ukrainians instead. Sorry. If that’s the position of the wider Ukrainian community though, cool. There’s no reason people from the community couldn’t have just said so from the begining instead of obsecuating about it. It’s not on me or anyone else that they didn’t though. And I still question if it actually is. One post doesn’t balance out or make up for the ridiculous way Ukrainians have acted about it in this conversation or the fact that the edits removing names have’t been and aren’t being reverted. Get back to me when it’s backed up with some actual action and people who have an issue with it are just accused of hating Ukrainians.

Your comment is inappropriate. Nobody owes you anything including “coming back”. The actual action is mentioned right before your post by @SomeoneElse but you deliberately ignored it. I hope it is not a bad will from your side, but just some kind of a curable bias.


Not generally sure, but If people ask the Ukrainian community a question about something in a public forum like this one there as an assumption that they will receive an answer about it at some point that involves more then handwaving about how the people asking it just Ukrainians. Especially if it involve vandalism. That’s just part of being members of the wider OpenStreetMap community. You can’t just ignore questions from the wider community and allow for Ukrain to be vandalised in the meantime because “mah war” or whatever. Its like it hasn’t been almost a year either. I think everyone, including myself, have been pretty patient about this. I have no issue with coming back to it when your actually willing to clarify things and take a stance against Russian names being removed and that’s all I was saying. I’m not going to just piss off because someone accused me of being racist or some nonsense though. Sorry.

(BTW, I didn’t ignore SomeoneElse’s comment. I just didn’t see it because I’m editing on the phone and its hard to see responses on mobile. Especially when your writting a messages. It has nothing to being bias though, obviously lmao.)

I can’t link to it right now because I’m editing on mobile but there’s a couple of edits from months (if not years) ago remocing Russian names from objects where user making the edits specifically said they doing to “derussiafy” Ukrain or whatever. Its been at a few months since I looked but no one from the Ukrainian community had said anything about it or reverted the edits at the time. I’m pretty sure I brought them up in this conversation to and my comment was ignored. You can argue maybe they just missed the edits and my comments, but then pro-Russian edits are almost always immediately condemned and reverted on site. So I find it hard to believe that’s what happened. Especially since like I’ve said I specifically brought it up and lnked to it in this conversation and no one had done anything about it days or months later when I looked. Let alone did I ever say explicitly (or otherwise) say the edit was wrong and that people shouldn’t be removing Russian names from objects.

Mapping in Ukraine is not forbidden. That Wiki page represent the opinion of the user who wrote it, not anything official and not the majority of OpenStreetMap.

Also, any war has 2 sides. It is not “the good” vs “the bad” like a cartoon.

@SomeoneElse Here is at least one of the links I was talking about. You can see from that conversation that the person said “every Saturday and Wednesday I will regularly delete name ru in Western Ukraine.” No one from the Ukrainian community called it out at the time or even acknowledged it here when I linked to it here originally. Let alone was it reverted at the time. Although a user who appears to be from Russia or a neighboring country did eventually revert it a month later.

Apparently the name on the roads has gone back and forth since then. Including this changeset where the user made this gem of a comment in the process “Ukraine don’t needs language of russian rapists of children and womens.” Again, the edit was reverted by someone who doesn’t appear to be from Ukraine a few days later but without anyone from Ukrainian specifically condemning the edit or the user calling Russian’s child rapists. You can look through that users edit history to see that all their changeset comments have the same line and “in Ukraine all names must be in Ukrainian language.”

The user hasn’t been blocked and the only person who has said anything to them or reverted their edits is @Grass-snake. Someone who again isn’t from the Ukrainian community and is being accused of acting divisively by people in this discussion who are. It’s apparently perfectly fine to say Russian’s rape children and that all names in Ukraine should be in Russian. But it’s divisive to ask the a question or point out that a message was hidden when it shouldn’t have been :man_shrugging:

As a side to that if you look through Anti1982’s edit history (the guy who made the “removing Russian names from Ukraine every Saturday and Wednesday” comment) they are now doing mass semi-automated edits to “decolonize” Ukraine. Whatever that means. Regardless, no one from the Ukrainian community has said jack about it from what I can tell and the user hasn’t been blocked. Nor have their edits been reverted. So the idea that this isn’t one sided or that the Ukrainian community isn’t cherry picking is just laughable. Compare all that to “pro-Russian” edits and again there’s clearly a double standard.

Here’s another gem BTW. The comment on all their changesets is “Civilized world dont needs language of russian rapists of children and womens.” Where’s the outrage by the Ukrainian community and why did it take multiple weeks for someone from New York to revert the edits they made in Ukraine when “pro-Russian” edits done there are condemned and reverted on site?

I believe that the vandal was blocked and the changes reverted.

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True, but it doesn’t negate the fact that their edits in Ukraine were reverted by non-Ukrainians and no one from the community ever said or did anything about it. At least not from what I can tell.

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without anyone from Ukrainian?

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“From Ukraine”, obviously. Chalk it up to writing the message on my phone. I wouldn’t worry to much about the exact wording of specific messages in the conversation, no matter who they are written by. Otherwise, your just going to miss the forest for the trees. Anyway, I don’t think dfn5h54563 and the user I was talking about the same person. So I’m not really sure what your point in bringing them up is, but cool that a few people spoke out about a user I wasn’t talking about in another conversation while refusing to take a position on it in this one.

As I’ve said, I don’t really care if someone in another discussion mentions something that has nothing to do with this discussion. If they are actually against the behavior there’s no reason they can’t or couldn’t have just said so in here when people outside of Ukraine were (and still are) asking them about it. Maybe it’s just me, but that seems like an easy win. To the point that I don’t really get why it’s taken almost a year for them to just condone it despite multiple asking them to. Hell, I’ve asked multiple Ukrainian users to condone the behavior just today and none of them have. I just got attacked for asking them to. So you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t really find the conversations you linked to as evidence of anything :man_shrugging:

Follow your own link - it’s the same user you were talking about.
Coincidentally a bull’s eye, this was just one of 7000 sockpuppets, dozens of whom have engaged in massive vandalism, destroying data in countless mass edits around the world. It wasn’t just the DWG that was busy with this for days. But you don’t seem to have noticed.


where’s the :-1: button?

(Also this post “was flagged as inappropriate: the community feels it is offensive, abusive, to be hateful conduct or a violation of our community guidelines”. It would be nice if the hatefully offended and abused community would come out of the hiding place where they can flag posts they dislike and tell us what precisely is inappropriate in wishing to thumbs-down a post.)

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I thought your message was in response to the last comment I wrote where I was referring to uwr_PretObulation1538. Not something I linked to like 7 comments above that. That said, It’s possible they are all socks of each other :man_shrugging:

I’ve actually spent a bunch of time looking through the histories of the people involved in these edits and I never saw any involvement from people in the Ukrainian community anywhere. It’s possible I just missed it, but if so, it’s clearly not proportional and removing Russian names from the map doesn’t receive the same response as pro-Russian edits do. Cool if someone from Ukraine dealt with a couple of users and edits over the last 2 years that it’s been an issue though. It clearly doesn’t balance out and the edits/editors are treated differently regardless.

@Adamant1 Unfortunately, you continue to ignore any attempts to bring you to the senses. You just repeat over and over again your narrative.

Let me sum it up for you once again:

  1. Ukrainian community is against mass-removal of name:ru tags. It is clearly a vandalism
  2. Since the active phase of the war started, there were several users who mass-removed things. DWG found over 7000 accounts linked just to one person. There were others, though not at this scale.
  3. The Ukrainian community had a hard hit in the sense that number of mappers has significantly dropped. At some periods, there was close to no human presence on OSM.
  4. All recent attempts to mass-remove things are reported to DWG once we learn about them
  5. Old edits are difficult to revert
  6. Automated edits must be discussed in the community, but that is not always followed by individuals

With this said, of course, you could easily find individual changesets or even whole user accounts without discussions. Sometimes we even did not bother to start those and wrote straight to the DWG (only recently).

Now, in regards to the general contents of some of the name:ru tags. As for the toponyms, especially below the city level, they often do not exist on the ground. They were automatic transliterations, often incorrect. Currently, there exists no official database of Russian toponyms on the territory of Ukraine. Hence, if somebody mass-adding those tags, it will indicate automatic translation or transcription. The only source of Russian toponym names by these days is in the knowledge of people or from the USSR era maps. This does not justify the undiscussed mass removal of the existing tags, of course.

For non-toponyms, the truth-on-the-ground must be followed for the “name” tag. In the past, some users were mass-transliterating names. Frankly speaking, I am guilty of this too, because I was transliterating Ukrainian names into name:en back in 2011-2014 with _sevbot account.

When such mass edits come from Russia, it is naturally frowned upon. For example, hundreds of Russian mappers invaded Crimea in the OSM back in 2014, and they destroyed Ukrainian there. They called it “Russian Spring”. Later many of these vandalistic mass-removals were reverted by Russian mappers themselves because vandalism is always vandalism.

There is a general consensus among the Ukrainian OSM community that once the war is over, there will be tons of work on repairing things in OSM. Hence, we are not eager to revert two years old things en masse. Of course, we will prevent such attempts when noticed. Please note that Russia and its OSM community were not negatively affected, e.g. they have resources to see and act upon vandalism even on the Ukrainian map, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Regarding that “decolonisation” that you found on one of the accounts: that title comes from the name of a telegram channel. What it is, in reality, is a published official list of street/village renames which are backed by the relevant governmental decrees. And those are hand-made. It is, obviously, a controversial or even a bad name, but the edits themselves are legit. The links to Telegram provide traceability.

And finally, iWowik is a notoriously known radical person with programming skills. So, sad combination for us. Search for his nickname on the forums, you will find that he brought a lot of problems through the years.

I hope I covered most of your arguments and did not miss anything important. However, your arguments felt more than attacks, e.g. passive aggressive a lot. I wish we would have a more constructive tone of discussion.


I’ve been pretty clear from the beginning that I’d just like to see the Ukrainian community clarify the article and take a stance against people removing Russian names from Ukraine. I wouldn’t call the degree to which I’ve pointed out their unwellness to that a “narrative.” I don’t really have any story I’m trying to tell here outside of making it clear that the community has failed to do either one of those things in the year (more or less) that people have been asking them to.

Like I said already, I’m not the one who keeps bringing up the war, I could really care less about the politics. And to the degree that I’ve repeated myself it’s been directly proportional to the unwellness on your side to address why this conversation was started. The is that I wouldn’t be involved in this right now if the community had of just dealt with it appropriately from the beginning. Your the ones repeating a narrative by acting like there’s to this on my end then that.

Good. I’m glad your willing to say it’s vandalism almost a year later and after multiple people asked the community to take stance on it multiple times. Easy clap…

Like I said, I’ve looked into this a lot over the last year or two. I’m not just cherry picking individual changesets to fit a narrative or whatever. There’s plenty of examples where the Ukrainian community all but ignored anti-Russian edits while promptly dealing with pro-Russian ones in the meantime.

That’s all well and good, but people who explicitly state “civilized world dont needs language of russian rapists of children and womens” clearly aren’t making the edits because the names are miss-translations. So I don’t really see how your tangent about toponyms or whatever is relevant :man_shrugging:

First of all the edits removing Russian names aren’t two years old. Secondly, the claim that the community prevents such attempts when it notices them is clearly false. Multiple people in this conversation have pointed out changesets were Russian names were removed from the map and their comments were all but ignored. Hell, your the only one who’s even acknowledged it’s going on or said it’s a problem. So your the idea that the community prevents such attempts when they see them is totally ridiculous on its face. Maybe there’s instances where they have prevented the edits from happening or whatever, but it’s clearly not consistent and they are more willing to acknowledge and/or deal with pro-Russian edits then anti-Russian ones.

Okay, you’re clearly not listening. And you are full of sarcasm and trolling. Now you fell so low that you started even cursing. You specifically ignored any arguments and repeat, “Nothing has been done in a year or is being done”. You accused me of falsehood.

Fine. I see no need to spend more time on this discussion. You are absolutely sure that the Ukrainian community is a failure and liars and nothing can change that. Great, let it be so.


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Could this be documented on the Wiki page “Russian-Ukrainian War”?