Report vandalism or concerns about edits here

I have reason to believe that user G626 is continuing to add fantasy roads in the following changesets:

  1. Changeset: 127208481 | OpenStreetMap
  2. Changeset: 127208736 | OpenStreetMap
  3. Changeset: 127351986 | OpenStreetMap (since reverted by @nikospag, but listed for the record)

This is not the first time the user has been doing this.

Most of G626’s changeset continue to be vague (https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/G626/history), but some comments are also quite aggressive:

Bug fixes, please don’t edit without knowing, leave it to us power users to do the hard work, consult the OSM Wiki before modifying anything as everything is for a reason and is the way it is don’t trash it for vandalism.

I agree that there’s something weird going on with that user, especially after seing him writting that response (which I agree it looks aggressive, especially the " leave it to us power users to do the hard work") after an edit by JayCBR, who’s a known mapper in the Greek community. And also it seems this user had 4 blocks based on HDYC tool. And even had a comment from DWG.

I don’t know if private communication has already occured with that user, but would be nice if he/she would come here and talk about this situation.

He sent me this PM on 23 August 2022:

I see you have a tendency to constantly vandalize the Kilkis area by not letting the area update. Please do not dare to deal with my own edits again, but also with the Kilkis region in general, because in the alternative case I will report you to the administrators to block you.
Do not bother with my edits and the Kilkis area in general again.

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And on 3 September 2022 sent me this PM:

Βλέπω με παίρνεις από πίσω συνεχώς πρόσεξε το γιατί το κόμπλεξ δεν χωράει στην κοινότητα μας. Να σου υπενθυμίσω ότι αντί για να λες ευχαριστώ που επικαιροποιώ τον χάρτη που έχει μείνει χρόνια πίσω έχεις το θράσος να με κάνεις και προειδοποιήσεις. Τέλος πάντων σου υπενθυμίζω ότι οι Εθνικές Οδοί σύμφωνα με το wiki του OSM χαρακτηρίζονται ως δευτερεύων δρόμοι και η Εθνική Οδός Ξάνθης - Κομοτηνής (2Β) είναι ένα τέτοιο χαρακτηριστικό παράδειγμα και την επόμενη φορά πριν πας να κάνεις κάποια αλλαγή φρόντισε να έχεις συμβουλευτεί το wiki η το forum εναλλακτικά μην το κάνεις από το να κάνεις κοτσάνες που μπερδεύουν και διασύρουν το OSM.

Υστερόγραφο: Είναι η τελευταία φορά που με πήρες από πίσω την επόμενη φορά θα απευθυνθώ για να φραγείς ώστε να μην μπορείς πλέον να παίζεις με τον χάρτη και τους χρήστες του.

and i replied with this:

Άκου φίλε μου, γιατι έχεις μεγάλο θράσος!!! εγώ είμαι εδώ πάνω απο 10 χρόνια και είμαι οργανωτικό μέλος της Ελληνικής κοινότητας και μιλάω εκ μέρους αυτής. Επίσης δεν υπάρχει Εθνική οδός 2Β, σου είπα διάβασε το Wiki. Και επίσης οι Εθνικές Οδοί είναι πρωτεύοντες δρόμοι (primary) και όχι δευτερεύοντες. Οι οδοί που ανέφερα παραπάνω είναι Επαρχιακές οδοί.(και άρα secondary). Και να προσθέσω οτι έχω λάβει παράπονα για τα λάθη σου από άλλα μέλη της κοινότητας

I will assume he got confused by the part of the wiki which mentions that Secondary National Roads are tagged as primary, and Tertiary National Roads are tagged as secondary.

At the same time, I see on the part with all the national roads, that Καβάλα - Ξάνθη - Κομοτηνή - Α/Κ Μέστης is mentioned as primary (assuming the Εθνική Οδός Ξάνθης - Κομοτηνής (2Β) he mentioned is part of that segment).

Would you mind trying to bring him here (since you already had a conversation) to discuss it with us, or should I PM him?

The above conversation came after this message of mine:

Μην αλλάζεις το classification των οδών κατά το δοκούν σε παρακαλώ. Το classification των οδών γίνεται με κανόνες. Δεν είμαστε βλάκες εμείς που είχαμε την Επαρχιακή οδό Ξάνθης - Ιάσμου και Κομοτηνής - Ιάσμου Secondary. Διάβασε το wiki ή ρώτα στο forum όταν πρόκειται να “επικαιροποιήσεις” δρόμους του Εθνικού και Επαρχιακού δικτύου.

He thinks that the above Provincial road is Εθνική Οδός Ξάνθης - Κομοτηνής (2Β) which is not. There is no Εθνική οδός 2Β.

Sorry, but i will not PM that guy again.

EDIT: I left a comment, addressed to DWG (@osmf-data-wg ), on one of his changetsets
(and a link to our discussion here)

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I see complaints against me for allegedly editing my fiction as well as for offensive rhetoric that some claim I use.

  1. Maybe some of you misunderstood my intentions as I am adding changes that were made in recent years and for various reasons were not placed on the Open Street Map.

  2. If anyone thought that I was aggressive in justifying edits or in personal messages then I apologize. My purpose is simply to place the projects that have been done in recent years on the map as in some areas the map has fallen far behind.

Let me ask a question to those who believe that these edits are in my imagination:

Why put my ‘‘fantasy’’ roads on the Open Street Map?

You sit and say that all this is in my imagination as if I woke up one day and said instead of devoting my free time after work and my own people to dealing with roads that supposedly don’t exist.

I know this source is not suitable for OSM, but I am linking for the sole purpose of proving that the Alistrati bypass is not real: Sentinel Playground | Sentinel Hub

Same for East Edessa: Sentinel Playground | Sentinel Hub

You realise that even if Greece had all the money in the world, they don’t run on Superman logic?

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If new roads exist, there should be some news article mentioning them being completed and open to the public, especially for major roads such as bypasses. Is there any such article or post by the municipality/region?

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It’s not that hard to prove that the roads that G626 added are not real. It’s just a matter of whether the DWG will do something about the user’s obviously fictional edits.

Sentinel Playground, while not suitable for mapping, is usually very recent enough for a different purpose of exposing fictitious edits. If those bypasses were real, Sentinel Playground would have shown it right now, which would then be a cue to begin verifying the alignment with on-the-ground surveys or compatible imagery, such as Maxar Premium Imagery or Bing.

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I am aware that in this changeset, G626 claimed that:

I passed by some time ago and saw it with my own eyes, what a shaky proof of this there is. When I pass by again I will take pictures to show you so that there are also documents in this regard.

Since Sentinel Playground uncovered those bypasses as fictitious, I am minded to recommend that all of G626’s changesets be reverted because I cannot be sure that any of the user’s other changesets are authentic.

I’m sorry, but the credibility of OpenStreetMap in Greece is in danger if those fictitious bypasses are still in place.

Side note: I also happen to monitor the following threads on SkyscraperCity, as another way of checking if the edits are real or not:

  1. Ελληνικό Οδικό Δίκτυο | Greek Road Network | SkyscraperCity Forum (Greek)
  2. [GR] Greece | road infrastructure • Ελληνικοί Αυτοκινητόδρομοι | SkyscraperCity Forum (English)

In short, we have many ways to detect fictitious edits without Google Maps.

I’m actually amazed you found such nicely-gathered info-updates of the Greek road network. Especially in an English forum.
In general, yes, many sources online to check for a major road actuality and progress of it.

But in this topic’s case, it was offered to the user the chance to prove the actuality of those roads. Before you post about those 3 sources, I would assume he confused road works with in-use roads. But it seems not even road works exist. Even if it’s a planned road…

@jimkats Exactly. He confused planned roads with real roads.

@ika-chan We will fix his bad edits bit by bit (in time).
I don;t want to ask for a total revert from DWG because not all edits of G626 are bad.
I am confident that we can handle it. :slightly_smiling_face:

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FYI After my previous revert of Alistrati bypass he remade it again just before he was blocked.
Of course i reverted it again !!!

DWG contacted me:

marczoutendijk:
Hello nikospag,
Do you think that DWG reverts are needed here or is the Greek community capable of handling this on their own?
If a revert is needed, then from what day should I start? There was a DWG revert back in February.

Best regards,
Marc Zoutendijk
OpenStreetMap Foundation
Data Working Group

nikospag:
Thanks for blocking him.
Thanks for the revert offering but i am sure we can handle it from here.
Thank you.

If you don’t agree with my answer please post below.

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It depends on what resources we have to review each of G626’s changesets: sadly, I cannot take part because I have a lot of unrelated things to attend to.

EDIT: this road is also fictional. Also, some of G626’s changesets (such as this) are quite suspicious because of how much it has deleted. I don’t know what you think, but I find it very hard to trust any of G626’s changesets, in the context of the fictional roads that the user added.

Starting here, you can see all the changesets that G626 made. They are not so many, 111, and the first one he made is only a month old. So I guess with a bit of patience, you can check all of his edits. The link I provided it’s his first edit.

Edit: As mentioned below, the link I provided only shows the edits made from 18 Oct 2022 onwards. OSMcha has filters though, so you can check all of the edits of a user, no matter how old.

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Some of the fictitious edits are older than one month. I think OSMcha only goes back one month by default. Honestly, I have to support a DWG revert of G626’s changesets.