How do YouthMappers teachOSM?

recently the Panamanian YouthMappers chapter YMUP started an organized edit hosted on teachosm.org. I commented to the Chapter president, inviting her to provide the help needed by her Chapter members, and I offered some help to one of their new mappers.

Then I contacted Adele Birkenes, the mapper who opened the project, who wrote to me that they have validation procedures in place, if I may quote her literally: “Tenemos un proceso de validación para capturar estos errores y proveer notas con correcciones a los estudiantes para que puedan aprender” (We have a validation process to capture these errors and provide notes with corrections to students so they can learn).

I’m now writing here in public, to invite someone from YouthMappers to tell us, not just me in a private message, how these processes work.

(if it hadn’t been for the president of YouthMappers Patricia Solís to be acclaimed mapper of the month by OSM België, I would probably not have started this thread… )

You’ve written all of them a note with URL to this discussion I hope?

Otherwise, as you didn’t mention then by their Discourse usernames if existing (like this @mariotomo), I find it unlikely they would randomly stumble upon this Discourse thread.

2 Likes

none of the people I mention is on the community yet. (in the past I already invited some of them here). this time I invited the project owner hoping she will consider my public question (directed to her as project owner) and propagate the invitation if she thinks so.

Probably opening this topic in Spanish at #communities:latam would be better if you want to engage them, we don’t know if they speak English (or feel confortable).

Also, I agree with @Matija_Nalis, unless you send them the URL to the topic, they won’t know about it.

Cheers.

2 Likes

thanks for the hint…

but, based on her contributions, the mapper owning that teachOSM project is in a timezone in East Asia, that’s why I did not initially relegate the topic in #communities:latam.

as for the language, I see that Discourse’s automatic translator does an excellent job.

I’m sharing links to this thread on other platforms. I’m not as active on twitter.

Hi Mario, validation happens after a project is finished. More experienced mappers come along and check the squares. Here is more info on how it works Missing Maps. Additionally at YouthMappers we have also started assigning a project mentor, a student with more experience to provide some real time feedback and catch any major issues. Happy Mapping!

and on what calendar date it is scheduled exactly, for this project?

(What interests me is does it mean random errors from new users will be staying on the map for hours, days, weeks, month or years? I.e. how long can it take at most until is guaranteed that mentor or validator will check and fix errors the new user has unintentionally made? )

Also, do “Panamanian YouthMappers chapter YMUP” follow Organised Editing Guidelines - OpenStreetMap Foundation ?

If they do, where is the wiki? I can only find YouthMappers - OpenStreetMap Wiki which seems to disclaim responsibility to local chapters (see here)

Hi Rory, (I grab your name from a message sent to you by Andy Townsend)

first of all, thanks for picking up the thread!

you’re describing a “second pass” validation, right? because on the HOT Tasking Manager, validation is task-based, not project-wide. how do the two passes combine?

this is a great idea. I guess this has not been implemented for the teachosm-project-1486: as far as I can see, as of now, of all changesets, only two have received comments, by myself. I hope your organization can appoint a project mentor for this case, helping implementing the teach part of this teachOSM.org project!

or maybe your teams use some internal channels for mutual help? if I may, I think this would be a rather bad idea: keeping your members protected from the general OSM environment would not help them become the local leaders you aim to raise.

again, thank you for joining the community and pick up the thread.

@Matija_Nalis The OSM Wiki Page for the chapter can be found here: I am not sure of the timeline for their project but we encourage chapters to design projects that can be edited and validated within a month (with some exceptions of course).

@mariotomo Sorry for any confusion, when I said “More experienced mappers come along and check the squares.” I meant they validate on a task by task basis. The suggestion to provide feedback on changesets directly is a good suggestion and while I am pretty sure that is what we recommend I will double check. The project mentorship is designed for the YouthMapper who is leading the project so they can communicate to the chapter working on the project common mistakes, best practices and the like so its not just one individual receiving the feedback.

1 Like

some time ago part of the Panamanian mappers community had (yet another) unresolved miscommunication with the local YMUP chapter. were they possibly referring to this project? maybe you have a preferential communication line that would let you solve the doubt?

we still do not know who’s the local person to whom we can refer for further information.

(update: I’m not any more administering the Panama group I founded. the other group went public, and I don’t see there any YouthMapppers presence)

Can you provide a link to that (mis)communication @mariotomo ? It would help for people to know what is being talked about exactly.

@notoncebut2x could you point the project leader (if that is not you?) to this Discourse thread?

@mariotomo according to teachosm #1484 page (if my autotranslator is working), the contact is Adele Birkenes. Have you tried inviting her(?) to this Discourse thread already?

Unless I miss something, I cannot see on that page that they list that teachosm #1484 project, nor that they followed Organised Editing Guidelines; e.g. there is no page created under Organised Editing/Activities - OpenStreetMap Wiki that relates to teachosm project #1484?

While that is not a hard requirement, creating it would avoid some pitfals (and also answer few of the questions asked here).

it’s a longish list, not sure how valuable trying reconstruct it once again. I’ve collected some communication attempts in my diary. starting around March 2019.

yep. both to Discourse and to this thread.
I might be wrong, but I do not believe she’s in close contact with the Chapter, I have the impression that her role is limited to creating the project on teachOSM.

Buenas noches, para no considerar dos hilos de correo. Contestaré a lo que se comenta aquí pero continúo el hilo acá Jóvenes Mapeadores de Panamá, please respond - #5 by Marianne_pty donde también explico un poco lo que hacemos como Capítulo en Panamá.

Descripción del proyecto y porqué se genera un task: El Proyecto de Reciclaje en el Municipio de Tonosí: Colaboración de YouthMappers Universidad de Panamá y PNUD, tenía como propósito realizar un mapatón de 4 corregimientos (El Bebedero, Tonosí Cabecera, Guánico y Cambutal) para apoyar el Proyecto de Reciclaje coordinado por El Laboratorio de Aceleración del PNUD en Panamá y la iniciativa Azuero Sostenible. Esta iniciativa se enfoca en mejorar la disposición de la basura a través de una gestión ambiental integral de los residuos sólidos en la Península de Azuero.

El mapear la zona permitirá al Laboratorio de Aceleración tener una mejor perspectiva del alcance del proyecto de reciclaje utilizando la base de datos de OSM. Esta zona tenía muy pocos registros de edificaciones y es por eso que de manera voluntaria y sin ánimo de lucro hemos colaborado con este proyecto.

Tareas: TeachOSM Tasking Manager (mapeado completamente y en proceso de validación), TeachOSM Tasking Manager (en proceso de mapeo y en proceso de validación).
Fecha límite para validaciones: 3 de diciembre del 2022.
Se nos ha hecho comentarios productivos relacionados a Wiki y estamos trabajando en ello para mejorar procesos en futuras colaboraciones. No será un proceso tan rápido como queremos, al inicio, pero una vez aprendido, será igual de eficiente que el que realizan ustedes.

Agradecemos los aportes y sus comentarios. Cualquier inquietud, no dude en escribirme.
Gracias: @notoncebut2x , @mariotomo, @Matija_Nalis y @nukeador.

Marianne_pty.

Thank you for the response @Marianne_pty.

@Matija_Nalis , hopefully you were able to get the answers needed from this post and from the chapter’s OSM Wiki page.

hola Marianne. toda esta información, que bien que la tengan, pero el lugar para publicarla es el wiki. Entendiste en cuál forma la esperan los demás maperos OSM? yo nunca he organizado proyectos, no te puedo indicar algo que escribí yo. si dentro de vuestra organización no tienen un formato estandard, les sugiero buscar entre proyectos africanos, y de enfocarse en la parte tabular que da el resumen informativo.

I don’t know what @Matija_Nalis thinks about your replies, but in my opinion we’re still stuck at the same stage where started, which is well described in this complaint:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Organised_Editing/Activities/YouthMappers_violate_Organised_Editing_guidelines_(2020_complaint_by_Mateusz_Konieczny)

hi @notoncebut2x, I’m pinging you here again because:

  • the two projects 1484 and 1486 aren’t yet mentioned anywhere in our wiki;
  • they seem stuck at 100% mapped 0% validated;
  • it’s still not clear who’s the “teacher”;
  • there was no visible effect commenting the changesets related to those projects.

I wish to thank @Maritza20r for her usable comments to the changesets she’s been contributing.

Thanks for you interest @notoncebut2x. As indicated as preferred by @Marianne_pty, I’ve posted in discussion in the other thread, but to shortly summarize here, it seems raised issues have not been resolved yet. I’m hoping for further communication showing if some action on raised issues has been taken in practice.

Thanks for the message @mariotomo,

We will reach out to the chapter and encourage them to place the links in their OSM Wiki (which mentions the project but as you pointed out did not link to the tasks).

Thanks for checking in on validation we will make sure the project gets fully validated in a timely fashion.

I don’t think the “Teach” in “Teach OSM” refers to a teacher in the classic pedagogical sense but more so that it is a platform for passing along knowledge, information and skills about OSM tools.

When you say:

There was no visible effect commenting the changesets related to those projects.

Do you mean that your comments on the changeset did not result in any changes? If so I would ask for a bit more time for the students to make the adjustments.

Thank you for recognizing @Maritza20r positive change set comments!

if I may repeat the hint: your active chapters are supposed to produce 2 projects each year. not necessarily mapping project, not necessarily on OSM, but yet I suppose that the entirety of your active chapters are producing quite a bit more than 20 projects per year. under these conditions, the hint to Youth Mappers International was to provide a template wiki file, including at least a table with the information that OSM considers necessary regarding an organized editing action.

sure, I get that. yet you also said …

did you double check? as I have documented above, as of now, it is still true that the only feedback through changeset comments provided to YMUP mappers has been given by myself.

without acknowledgement of my comments (“is anybody out there?”), I have stopped reviewing the work produced within these two projects. a quick look right now, I see several typical beginners’ mistakes, which is to be expected since we’re looking at a beginners. each mistake being an opportunity for learning, it’s a pity that the effort to provide feedback is not welcomed and capitalized.