In general, I think there are three kinds of ‘shelter’.
A facility for sheltering from inclement weather, like the ‘amenity=shelter’ entry on the OSM wiki,
A place or area for emergency temporary shelter from a disaster.
(often serving as a temporary gathering place: bomb shelters, tsunami shelters, nuclear accident shelters, etc.)
(I’m sure there are facilities for this purpose in other countries, so maybe it’s already on the OSM wiki and I’m just not finding it.)
And a facility that provides protection from a disaster.
(bombing bunker, nuclear bunker, etc.).
I think there should be a clear distinction between the three.
And the ‘Key:shelter_type’ type on the OSM wiki, which lists severe weather shelters, contains ‘nuclear’.
I don’t think this should be included in that entry.
I’d love to see someone put this idea into a formal discussion or clean it up.
한국어 요약(Korean summary)
OSM 위키에서 대피소 형태를 정리해 줬으면 합니다.
'대피소'(shelter)에는 단순 기후 피난처, 재난 피난처 혹은 집합소, 그리고 견고한 방호시설(방공호 등)이 있습니다.
I’ve kept it very short and simple because I don’t speak English well enough to lead a discussion.
Let’s recap briefly.
I think there are three categories of shelter.(Just my thoughts. Let’s study this and organize it.)
shelters from severe weather, as described in the existing OSM wiki.
temporary shelters or temporary gathering places during a disaster.(assembly_point)
robust defense facilities(bunker etc.)
The shelter entry on the OSM wiki includes radioactive fallout shelters.(I think it should be included in the bunker entry.)
The ‘assembly_point’ entry says that temporary evacuation facilities (assembly points) in Taiwan do not fit in this category.(I believe that tsunami shelters, earthquake shelters, bomb shelters, and nuclear accident shelters all belong in this category. These shelters are not bunkers as you might think; they are temporary shelters and gathering places.)
For example in the case of South Korea, there are evacuation centers in case of bombing. This place can only avoid temporary bombardment, but it is not very solid.
There are temporary shelters from natural disasters. It’s a temporary shelter, and depending on the severity of the disaster, it’s a place for the government’s next move. Tsunamis, nuclear accidents, etc.
There are other solid defenses, but like in other countries, these are military installations.
There will be several types of disaster evacuation facilities in each country.
The idea is to make this clear and concise.
I think that temporary evacuation facilities in preparation for bombing and temporary evacuation facilities (gathering points) in preparation for tsunami or nuclear accidents should all be classified under the ‘assembly point’ category.
Depending on how you look at it, you may think that assembly points, which are simple places and areas, and bomb shelters with little protection should be classified separately.
I believe it’s because these are assembly “points”, meaning they need not provide sheltering and acts mainly as a meetup point in case of emergency where groups may get separated. In that sense assembly_point doesn’t imply shelter.
‘assembly_point’ 태그가 해당 사항에 적합하지 않은 이유는 비상시 일행을 놓칠 때를 대비해 정해 둔 만남의 장소로써 반드시 피난처라는 보장이 없기 때문으로 보는 게 맞을 것 같습니다.
I’d say it is enough to categorise them in 2 overall groups: assembly_point and shelter. Types of shelter (weather, tsunami, earthquake, etc.) would be defined as a subtag of these. Of course, a note or area can have both tags.
Also worthy of note is that there’s another tag scheme for emergency shelters in the form of emergency=disaster_help_point. This seems to be the closest to what Koreans would refer to as Civil Defence Disaster Shelter (민방위 재난대피소).
assembly_point : 재난시 임시 대피 장소, 집합 장소(Temporary evacuation sites
and assembly areas during disasters) 한국의 해일 대피소, 원전 사고 대피소 등
As others have said an assembly point does not imply a shelter, it is
usually just a sign where people gather when a building needs to be
evacuated to ensure that everybody is accounted for so that emergency
services need to know if they need to find anyone who is missing and
not go searching for someone who is out and safe.
Please don’t try to understand Korean by translating it into English.
If I need an objective explanation, I wrote in English.
The Korean expression is just as confusing as “shelter” in English.
(In Korean, ‘-소’ means ‘place’ in English.)
‘assembly point’ is an area, a region. Sure, there may be buildings or facilities in that place, but that’s not its essence.
This is true in Korea as well.
If you still have doubts, just look up tsunami shelters and nuclear accident shelters in South Korea.
논의를 어렵게 만드시네요… ^^;
모든 일이 제 짧은 영어 때문에 일어난 일이기는 합니다만, 외국분들이 점점 더 헷갈리는 것 같아서 굳이 덧붙이는 것이니 양해 바랍니다.
제가 이해하는 한 'assembly point’는 'meetup point’가 아닙니다. 한국과 일본의 해일 대피소는 전혀 그런 성격이 아닙니다.
그것은 반드시 시설물이나 건물일 필요는 없지만, 최소한의 보호를 제공하는 장소여야 합니다.(그래서 '~처’라는 표현을 쓴 것입니다.)
해일 대피소의 경우, 해일의 세기에 따라 안전 높이가 설정되어 있다는 건 다른 글에서 설명했습니다.(제 견해와 상관없이 위키에도 서술되어 있습니다.)
원전 사고 대피소 또한 기본적인 안전 장비들을 갖추고 있으며, 더 높은 단계의 대응에 대비하는 목적이 있습니다.
그 밖에 화재 대피소의 경우에도 대형 산불 같은 것에서도 안전할 수 있는 꽤 넓은 탁 트인 곳(야외)입니다.
설명하신 'meetup point’가 오히려 'disaster_help_point’에 가깝습니다.(Disaster help points serve as contact points in case of disasters.)
날씨에 관한 대피소는 위키에서는 'shelter’로 분류되어 있고, 전쟁으로 인한 재난을 막는 것은 'bunker’로 되어 있으며 이것 또한 제 의견과 상관없이 위키에 정리된 바를 따른 것입니다.
There will always be auto-translation errors for this sort of thing, but for people who don’t speak a shared language, translation is literally the only option.
Any wiki edits should follow how things are tagged in OSM. Currently there are lots of different values used for shelter_type - surely no-one is suggesting merging those without using other tags to ensure that data is not lost?
한국과 일본의 대피소가 assembly point의 정의에 맞지 않는다면 번역된 단어의 의미에 치중하기 보단 실제 쓰임새를 제대로 풀어낼 수 있는 태그를 쓰는 게 맞다고 봅니다. 한국에서도 대학교 같은 곳에 보면 assembly point가 있습니다. 재난시 모여야 하는 곳이니 당연히 재난에서 비교적 안전한 곳이겠지만, 그 이외에 며칠을 연명할 수 있는 기반시설이 갖춰지지 않은 그냥 공터입니다.
disaster_help_point의 독어 문서에서도 assembly_point 태그와 직접 비교했는데, assembly_point의 경우 “표지판이 있는 집결지로, 대피시 사람들이 찾아야 할 장소”(Damit werden ausgeschilderte Sammelplätze bezeichnet, die Personen bei einer Evakuierung aufsuchen sollen.)라고 서술했습니다. 또 disaster_help_point의 경우 “단순 집결 장소보다 역할이 더 많다” (Dann aber haben diese Stellen mehr als nur die Funktion eines Sammelplatzes.)라고 적혀있습니다. 또 emergency=assembly_point의 문서에 보면 assembly point의 동의어로 "meetup point"라는 단어를 쓰고 있습니다.
그리고 여기서 논의되지 않은 다른 태그를 찾았는데, social_facility=shelter의 경우 특별히 "숙소"를 제공하는 대피시설로 정의되어 있습니다. 노숙자 쉼터, 아동 쉼터 등에도 쓰이지만, 지진 시 학교 강당 등지에 임시 거처를 마련하여 대피 생활을 할 수 있도록 하는 것과 유사해 보입니다.
Well it is supposed to, but doesn’t always! Sometimes people use the wiki to document how people use tags, and sometimes they use the wiki that “the way that they have been using tags in OSM is wrong”.
I think more values for social_facility:for could be useful. To be honest though I would like thinks like hurricane shelters put under a different main tag (probably emergency).
I think it is confusing to use the same tag for shelters that are always available like homeless shelters and shelters that are only available once they are “activated” for an emergency. It is very useful to record the emergency ones ahead of time, but they are often buildings that are normally used as schools and churches that have some additional equipment in storage so it might only make sense to render them as shelters on a humanitarian layer. This type of shelter is very different to the small amenity=shelter for protection against “normal” weather.
At least that’s my impression from growing up in a hurricane zone.
