Thougts about a changeset near to mapping for the renderer in Lund

Writing in English so the user who made the changeset can follow the discussion easily (unsure about his language).
Yesterday I saw some notes about ever changing speed-limits on some streets and inside a parking in Lund, just had a look at the map but not into the data then.

Today I had a look in the data and saw that the user had made some changes in this changeset

The road inside the parking (Yesterday there was none) looks for me like mapping for the renderer (or his GPS) and probably has not the given name.
Before his changeset there were solar-panels mapped on the roof of the garage which he deleted - I feel this should be reverted.
Is 40 km/h a normal speed-limit inside a parking in Sweden? For me this looks quite high. Better not to map a speed limit when nothing is signalled?

Any thoughts about it from the local mappers?

Hi,
I am the guilty guy!

I live beside Brunnshögstorget very near to the parking house Aurora and my car is parked in this parked there.

My car uses both map data and GPS to determine the current speed limit.
Since there is no maximum speed set for this parking house in OSM, the car reverts to GPS for this information.
The GPS reports a speed limit flipping between 5km/h, 40km/h and 60km while driving inside the parking house.

My car insurance company reads the speed of the car and if you drive over the speed limits, you get a penalty in form of a higher premium…

I have been in contact with the parking company, LKP, and they have verified that there is no specific speed limit within the parking house and are no speed signs inside either.

The default speed limit 40km/h for this area, which corresponds with the speed signs outside the parking house.

Of course 40km/h is a to high speed driving inside the Parking house…

In Sweden it is always the drivers responsibility to maintain a responsible speed in relation to the environment.

I am a recently retired IT guy and I would love to help contribute with speed data in the vecinity since I live here and can report changes as they occur.

I think you should revert the changes I did to get back to status quo!

Perhaps you could teach me how I should map the parking house with the default 40km/h limit?
I am using the “GoMap!!” application.

I am sorry for the inconvenience!

Take care,
Michael

Hi Michael
First of all I would not call you a “Guilty guy” as everyone maps things not completely right.
Thanks a lot for responding so fast and explaining why you made the changes the way you made them - I can understand that you made it that way :slight_smile:
I think (!) if all the streets around the parking are mapped with 40 km/h (or more if they are signalled like that) your car should not tell you that you are too fast if you drive slower on streets that have no limit mapped. As far as i see with a quick check there are no streets with the speed-limit 5 km/h left nearby.
Would you call Telefonistgatan and Vetenskapsgatan for living-streets (are they signalled like that) or would something else fit better?

2 Likes

Hi Michael,

First of all, welcome to OSM and thank you for trying to fix the map data (even though it didn’t work out, but that’s nothing to worry about, seeing it was your first changeset and the editor didn’t seem to cooporate!)

After looking into your notes a little bit, it seems like Lunds kommun is reporting erroneous data to Trafikverket, since there are large discrepancies between street signs on the ground (as reported by you) and the data on NVDB (choose speed limit as a layer and compare to your surveys). Best would be if you could report this to the municipality. Even worse is that lots of the streets, and especially the living streets (gångfartsområden), don’t have any legal speed limits as the signs would suggest, since they would be listed under Svensk trafikföreskriftssamling - Transportstyrelsen if you choose region, municipality, mark all the boxes and search for a street name. This is as far as I can tell also a result of incomplete reporting from the municipality, which it ought to rectified.

For the time being, at least in Brunnshög, I would suggest trying to follow the speed limits as signed, seeing as the official data have random streets down as 50 km/h streets, which they obviously aren’t supposed to be. If there is a sign for gångfartsområde, the OSM tag should be maxspeed=walk, or you could tag it as 40 km/h as well, since the sign isn’t legally enforceable.

Trying to fix the behaviour of the application in your car by changing OSM data is wrong, though, if the data you’re contributing isn’t correct. If the speed limit is walking speed, it should be mapped as such, even if your GPS is wrong and penalises you in some way. As for the speed limit in the parking garage, I think it can safely be mapped as the same as the street outside. There would be no speed limit change by entering the parking garage if there are no signs, so even if you can’t drive even close the speed limit and there would never be any speed cameras inside the parking garage, maxspeed=40 wouldn’t be incorrect, in my opinion.

It looks like you added the levels correctly to the roads you added (they are now deleted, so you’ll unfortunately have to readd them), but they shouldn’t have any names that aren’t signposted. They should also be placed correctly geographically, so if they aren’t in a spiral, but in reality on top of each other, they need to be on top of each other in OSM as well. This is unfortunately very difficult to achieve with editors that lack layer support, which include many simple editors (I’m unsure about Go Map!! specifically).

I hope this explained some things and again, welcome to OSM! There are lots of work which could benefit greatly from IT knowledge, so I suggest you continue to poke around in the editors (the one on osm.org, iD, is also very beginner friendly), make some edits and refer to the wiki for details on tagging conventions to familiarize yourself with the (admittedly a little unorthodox) OSM way of GIS.

Happy mapping!

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Thanks for your kind remarks!

There is only one way to learn to swim- dive in, so that is what I am doing:)

I would say that Vetenskapsgatan is a normal street, while Telefonistgatan is more like a living-street with cars and pedestrians using the same street.

Take care,
Michael