I would like to tag a kindergarden that shares the same building (except for the level) and outdoor area, as well as being operated by the same institution. I’ve thought about multiple things, since currently only the website for the place and phone number is linked and I’d like to add more detailed tags:
Remove the area surrounding the entire Kindergarten grounds and add both back to the building as seperate Nodes (would lose some information about what belongs to the kindergarten
Have them start with the same common name only differentiating by its use
Tag the outdoor as a private or for customer playground
Put the area in a site relation and add both things back as seperate levels as amenity=kindergarten with their differentiating Tags
Put the seperate tags vor min_age and max_age with the ages given or a comment explaining its only for Children in the elementary school
The site solution seems the best to me but it does not seem like a common use for site. What are your thoughts on this. I recently had something similar with a fuel station operating multiple amenities so I put the name in front of the amenity use and tagged the operator. Maybe I should’ve only tagged the main building/the area and left the individual amenities nameless but I don’t really know whats Ideal for these Situations. This is actually really annoying to figure out so thanks for your help <3
@Datico
Thanks for the link! After studying the website and all sorts of wiki pages, I’m sure that it’s a single institution in all areas: Organisation, management, team, rooms, outdoor area, contact details, even the registration form - all one. I don’t think it makes sense to split it into two parts and/or create a relation - it’s easier to record via the area.
addr:city=St. Leon-Rot
addr:housenumber=9
addr:postcode=68789
addr:street=Schulstraße
after_school=yes
amenity=kindergarten
breakfast=yes
capacity:after_school=75
capacity:preschool=75
denomination=roman_catholic
education=kindergarten
email=kiga.stnikolaus.stleon@walero.de
fax=+49 6227 363249
isced:level=0;1
landuse=education
lunch=yes
max_age=10
min_age=3
name=Katholisches Kinder- und Familienzentrum St. Nikolaus
opening_hours=Mo-Fr 07:00-17:00; PH off
opening_hours:url=https://kiga-stnikolaus-stleon.de/zeiten-und-preise/
operator=Röm-kath. Kirchengemeinde Walldorf - St. Leon - Rot
operator:type=religious
phone=+49 6227 3563240
preschool=yes
religion=christian
website=https://kiga-stnikolaus-stleon.de/
wheelchair=limited
(landuse=education and education=kindergarten are not really necessary, but can be added - could be interesting in the future)
With these tags, the institution “Kindergarten” as well as the institution “Hort” will be found and always displayed correctly as they are needed/looked for, which is after all what you want, right?
Notes:
1.) It is not necessary to show the opening hours in full, as the individual childcare modules are very different and it is particularly important to know when the house is “in operation”.
2.) The front door being locked from 9-12 could also be added with conditional restrictions.
3.) I don’t know why the facility is called " Kinder- und Familienzentrum", but it is the official name.
4) The address should also be entered here, in addition to the building where it is already located.
5.) Just how complicated the use of relations can sometimes be can be seen in the school next door, which makes an error report in the Inspector.
@Herwescheluc Thanks for your response. I already read through this and a few other threads on this but they all don’t seem to have a good solution. I don’t really wish to remove the area for the kindergarten but I’ve read that an area should be tagged by the most important amenity. The problem is, they have the same capacity for after school childcare and the normal kindergarten but different opening times. The german wiki refers to the fact that amenity=childcare as a proposal was turned down and I should instead focus on taggin the Kindergarten correctly. Do you think site would be applicable here. There doesn’t seem to be a neat solution to this which I was looking for. Can I retain the information that they share the same outside area somehow?
You could potentially map them both as multi-polygons. Two multi-polygons can use the same outline way(s). This would not capture which is on which level though, that would require either a node or a way with the relevant level tags.
@Datico: Would you be kind enough to provide a website or OSM link to the object your question relates to. Without promises, I will try to make a suggestion for tagging.
@Herwescheluc Thanks a lot this was definitely pretty insightful. Honestly when it comes to tagging multiple amenities by the same operator which belong together. I feel like openstreetmap is kinda not 100% meant for this. When it comes to opening hours I agree. The only thing I’d say is different is the name since the sign on the outside just says Kinderhaus “St. Nikolaus” and it’s the more common name. Don’t know why they use this version on the website. Also maybe I’d avoid landuse education since unlike the US Kindergartens those aren’t a place of learning. Maybe because kids do homework there after school but shouldn’t the amenity tag be sufficient?
Also I don’t know if it matter but I thought the contact based tags for contact:phone and contact:website are more up to date but less used
Also one more question. Are you sure an adress should be tagged twice since it kinda goes against the OSM principle of everything only being tagged once
Moie nochmal, @Datico: Ich bleibe deutsch, is’ ja gelöst und nur noch für Dich!
Sorry für die späte Antwort, musste die wegen anderer wichtiger Dinge (Gartenarbeit und folgender Müdigkeit mit Denkproblemen) etwas zurückstellen und erstmal gaaanz einfachen Beschäftigungen nachgehen.
OSM verlangt oft Improvisationskünste, in der Tat! - Macht aber Spaß, überraschende Lösungen zu suchen.
Was den Namen betrifft, ist natürlich “on the ground” und die allgemeine Gepflogenheit der Benennung vorrangig. Die Kontaktdaten sind für mich zuerst immer ohne “contact:”, nur wenn das “kilometerweit” (Sammelrufnummer, dezentrale Bestellmöglichkeiten wie Lieferando-Seiten und ähnliches) abweicht - dann nutze ich den Präfix. Bezüglich Adressen ist natürlich eine Hauptadresse an Gebäuden das erste, da gehört sie, soweit vorhanden, auch hin. Aber wer z.B. im OpenBrowser nach der Einrichtung selbst sucht, dem wird keine angezeigt, wenn keine hinterlegt ist. Das gilt für alle POIs, zu denen irgendjemand gelangen will und die nicht an Gebäuden hängen, weil ein Punkt oder eine andere Fläche das ja schon hat. “Alles nur einmal” gilt hier nicht, da verschiedene Dinge damit gekennzeichnet werden und die Adresse hier ein Attribut und keine Sache ist.
Die education-Tags sind ja nur ein Vorschlag, als ehemaliger Erzieher in einer Kita ist mir aber schon wichtig: Kindergarten ist immer (heute sogar mehr als noch vor ein paar Jahren) eine “Bildungseinrichtung”! Nur weil das in D etwas weniger streng vorgegeben ist, ist das deswegen immer noch erheblich besser, als die reine Kinderaufbewahrung wie noch in den 70/80ern und vorher. Da hat sich sehr viel getan…
Hoffe, Du bist soweit zufrieden mit der Lösung. Wenn Du noch andere Fragen dazu hast, mail mich einfach an
)
in einer Kita ist mir aber schon wichtig: Kindergarten ist immer (heute sogar mehr als noch vor ein paar Jahren) eine “Bildungseinrichtung”! Nur weil das in D etwas weniger streng vorgegeben ist, ist das deswegen immer noch erheblich besser, als die reine Kinderaufbewahrung wie noch in den 70/80ern und vorher. Da hat sich sehr viel getan…