I would like to properly document the use of artwork_type=graffiti, a previously undocumented but widely used tag, to clarify the difference (if any) between a graffiti and a mural (artwork_type=mural).
These are the definitions included on the Key:artwork_type page:
artwork_type=mural
A mural is any piece of graphic artwork that is painted or applied directly to a wall, ceiling or other permanent substrate.
artwork_type=graffiti
A notable graffiti work
The Polish version of the wiki provides additional details:
artwork_type=graffiti
Graffiti. Od muralu rĆ³Å¼ni siÄ tym, że jest malowane sprayem lub sprayem przez szablon i tworzone najczÄÅciej anonimowo, bez zez zezwolenia.
Machine translation:
artwork_type=graffiti
Graffiti. It differs from a mural in that it is painted with spray paint or a stencil and is mostly created anonymously, without permission.
Mural techniques include fresco, mosaic, graffiti and marouflage (see Mural on Wikipedia), so then it might be conflict to establish the difference in that the graffiti uses spray paint. Nor does size seem to make a difference, as there are large-scale graffiti murals. In addition, some graffiti are created by artists whose name is known.
Mural/Graffiti by Lalo Luque (Lalone) on a building. Source: own work (CC BY-SA 4.0) available on Wikimedia Commons.
Any suggestions for properly documenting the use of artwork_type=graffiti on the wiki and explaining the difference with a mural? Any comments would be appreciated.
Usually graffiti has to do with lettering, the subject is always a word. The only exception I know are āgraffiti puppetsā, but are usually an addiction to the word.
EDIT:
āTagsā are also āwords made with spray cansā but they are simple (one line) and not considered graffiti, in which there are usually more layers. Usually they are used as a signature.
It differs from a mural in that it is painted with spray paint or a stencil and is mostly created anonymously, without permission.
I donāt get the āspray paint OR stencilā thing. You canāt paint with a stencil, is just a tool. Stencils are used in graffiti art (sometimes to make precise details) but itās not the only tool. Art made with spray AND stencil only is not considered graffiti art but street art, such as Banksy which is not considered a graffiti artist but a street artist.
There is no clear differentiation between mural, streetart and graffiti. Objects which are name streetart in one comment will be calles graffito in another one. If you read the Wikipedia pages for those terms you will end up with the same result. I believe the most common interpretations are
streetart (also called urban art) = general term for all kind of mural and graffiti works + other kinds of artwork in public spaces
mural = some official piece of artwork using a wide range of techniques
graffito (or graffiti) = illegally placed painting or writing on various objects, commonly applied by spray paint (but not exlusively), often displaying some kind of artistic alienated lettering, in many cases understood as a kind of vandalism.
Once again: This is not an attemt to provide a final definition but just a reflection of the most common interpretation. Imho the wiki pages should reflect the fact that a precise distinction of these terms is not possible. Mappers should feel free to interprete the objects they find and tag accordingly.
A valuable additional tag imho is tourism=attraction ( ā¦ Banksy and others ā¦).
OT: A nice collection of street art examples here, although not always easy to differentiate between real objects and photoshop fakes.
I think that in the graffiti scene thereās a clear differentiation about what a graffiti is. āThat piece is a graffiti or not?ā is a talk I never heard in the scene to be honest.
Uhm I disagree. Illegality isnāt a requirement. A legal Phase2 graffiti is still a graffiti. There are lot of graffiti artist who get invited to perform their art.
The only other way I can think of now is āroller graffitiā. Sometimes they add details with āmarkersā but of course you canāt complete a piece with those only. Do you know other ways the paint is applied?
People from within the sprayer scene will surely have a different understanding of their doing than common people. A major difference could be that many scene people understand their work as art whereas most other people understand it as vandalism for instance.
Same as before. Note:
Once again: This is not an attemt to provide a final definition but just a reflection of the most common interpretation.
Some graffiti samples:
Source: Wikipedia
As I tried to express above: Definitions are not as clear as one may believe.
Uhm nope, not a graffiti sample. First and second are graffiti (lettering), third one is street-art (stencil).
As a matter of fact that same image is featured in the Street art Wikipedia page, in which they also explain the difference:
āWhereas traditional graffiti artists have primarily used spray paint to produce their work, āstreet artā can encompass other media, such as LED art, mosaic tiling, stencil art, sticker art, reverse graffiti, āLock Onā sculptures, wheatpasting, woodblocking, yarn bombing and rock balancing.ā
In my experience puppets are cartoonish animals or humas that are integrated in the graffiti or painted at the sides of it. I would call Example 1 a puppet, the second one seems too realistic and I wouldnāt define it a classic puppet, but I guess with time graffiti artist became more and more skillful. The italian book āGraffiti writing. Origini, significati, tecniche e protagonisti in Italiaā defines a puppet as a āfigurative elementā, meaning the elements that are not stricly connected to the lettering. So I wouldnāt map them as their own, they are part of the graffiti artwork.
Yes, that is your opionion but the author of the wikipedia page has another opionion and calls it a graffito which goes well along with the definition of graffiti in the german Wikipedia (translated):
Graffiti (Italian; singular graffito) is today a collective term for thematically and creatively different visible elements, for example pictures, lettering or signs, which have been created using varioustechniques on surfaces or by altering them in private and public spaces. The graffiti is usually produced under a pseudonym and often illegally. Creators of graffiti, especially when they use spray cans, are often called sprayers, but refer to themselves as graffiti artists.
ā¦ which is another proof for the statement that there is no clearly definded differentiation between streetart and graffiti.
Are we assuming that graffiti is by definition illegal will be automatically removed? I would rather consider it a form of steet art. We can let those familiar with piece decide whether to include it based on local conditions such as building owner, property laws, enforcement along with community sentiment.
The quote is not mine. It was a post by AntĆ³nio Madeira on the Tagging mailing list.
Graffiti is a form of street art. I agree that local knowledge is essential. I would just like to include some general guidelines on the wiki page for the local mapper to understand what ānotableā graffiti means. Not strict rules, just enough for the mapper to understand what we mean by ānotableā in line with OSM best practice on legality and temporary features.
Very difficult as there are no general regulations or guidelines about this issue. Many city authorities have responded to the illegal spraying and offered spaces where graffiti sprayers are allowed to perform. In other places it may not be officially allowed but the authorities tolerate it (for instance on concrete pillars or abutments of brides, retaining walls and the like). In most of these places the result is clearly visible because the graffiti applied there are of much better quality and can easily be accepted as artwork even if you are not part of the scene.
In most cases illegal are the hastily applied letterings which @ivanbranco called ātagsā and which are repeatedly applied dozens or hundred of times on any surface available:
Iād say the more simple and roughly applied a graffito is, the higher is the likelihood that itās illegal and will be removed soon (and therefore should not be mapped imho). But as you said, local knowledge is essential ā¦
I still havenāt found a great definition of graffiti. It is considered a form of street art because it is outside formal galleries and installions. Never commissioned, requested or even paid for in any way. This could be also be considered as mural since it is on a wall.
Yes, I think the terms overlap. Some graffitis are murals, others arenāt. Some murals are graffiti, others arenāt.
Iām really surprised for example that people here are saying that Banksy isnāt graffiti. Itās easy to find notable sources that disagree (Encyclopaedia Britannica, BBC). Iām equally surprised that people are saying here that tags arenāt graffiti. Maybe the word āgraffitiā is used differently in different languages, or the words are used with different meanings by those in the scene compared with how they are used by the general public. (Iām not suggesting that we record every tag in OSM.)
We can try to construct a distinction for the purpose of OSM tagging, but is that really helpful? Maybe we donāt need a clear distinction. Itās good that we have both tags, because there are cases where only one of them works. In cases where both work, mappers have to decide which one is more appropriate, depending on their connotations.
If we wanted to tag it really precisely, maybe we would need a different tagging scheme, such as artwork_type:mural = yes/no and artwork_type:graffiti = yes/no, or artwork_type = mural;graffiti.
Cool! IMHO, that can be considered ānotableā graffiti.
I have nothing to add to this thread at this moment. Just to say that I read your comments (all of them) and will take them into account to improve the wiki page. I have also borrowed some books from my local library to be better informed on this subject.
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