Brands and Names in Name Suggestion Index

[Fabi2]

@Minh_Nguyen

The Name Suggestion Index project, which helps ensure consistent brand and operator tagging, generally includes only the brand name in name=*, but it makes broad exceptions for some countries, POI categories, and individual brands.

For the NSI-project you can choose between “brands” that look like the shop name in common language or common shop “names” that look like in you favorite brand style guide at the moment.

I opened this issue because it seems that they make no difference betweenm a brand and a name as used in common language.

Yes, it does not help if you can choose between name=Rossmann and brand=Rossman (name=* written right) or name=ROSSMANN and brand=ROSSMANN (brand=* written right).

For me name=* is the complete name written as in common used language in the affected country (you can only refer to to the OSM community, if not already skewed by NSI), otherwise a search engine should be used (Wikipedia is also of limited usefulness)) use and as it appears on the shop or in publications.

The common used spelling rules of the language used in the country should be prefered for the spelling of the name=*, but it doesn’t help when you have to write “Wir waren gestern bei Mc Donalds.” (“We were by Mc Donalds yesterday.”) in a German lesson because you will get two mistakes for writing “McDonalds’s”, but the commons people languge or community use is “McDonalds’s”, but this does not mean that there should be brain dead brand style guide enforcement.

If the (shop) name/brand is also used in uppercase in mixed shop names such as “REWE City”, then “REWE” should not be lowercased. But if the “name” on the sign is “ROSSMANN” (=brand) then the name should be written like normal German names, with only the first letter in uppercase. If the name can spoken (contains “a”,“e”,“i”, “o” or “u”) or look like a word, such as “Aldi” then is sooner or later will be used by the common pepole as such, so name=* should e.g. Aldi and not “ALDI” (=brand) or “AlDi” (=abbreviation of the old shop name).

@gileri

The NSI, while really useful most of the time, degrade OSM regarding the name of chain brands sadly.

See it the same. NSI is useful, but they should do it right.

@Mateusz_Konieczny

I am pretty sure it is true also across Germany, Croatia, Ukraine and several other countries I visited.

Shop name examples for Gemany: Edeka + surname (of the operator=*), Edeka + shop type + surname or Penny + location

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

@Fabi2

For me name=* is the complete name written as in common used language in the affected country (you can only refer to to the OSM community, if not already skewed by NSI), otherwise a search engine should be used (Wikipedia is also of limited usefulness)) use and as it appears on the shop or in publications.

Note that, again, it is not matching name tag as commonly used and defined by OSM community.

“complete name” is often going into official_name

what search engine suggest is mostly irrelevant

“as it appears on the shop” - nope, it is name=Rossmann(*) - not name=R:centaur_emoji_in_circle:OSSMANN or name=<red>R:centaur_emoji_in_circle:OSSMANN</red>

(*) name=Rossmann vs name=ROSSMANN may depend on orthography, habits, tradition and alphabet in given region, name=Rossmann seems clearly preferred in Poland

@Fabi2

I opened this issue because it seems that they make no difference betweenm a brand and a name as used in common language.

It is highly preferable to not open such issues claiming that they are not following your personal preferences when these are not widely shared by other mappers. Especially if discussion already revealed that your opinions/preferences are not widely shared by others on this topic.

(yes, I also did this kind of mistake few times - in such case it is fine to close own issue)

[Fabi2]

@Fizzie41

So if I’m going down to Aldi to shop, where do you want me to say I’m going?

In the past, your where goinig to “ALDI Nord” in Germany. This issue was not reported by anyone of the community, besides me, three quarters of a year at least.

[Fabi2]

@fortera_au

Might also be worth adding that the original NSI data was based on what already existed in OSM.

Can you show me this for brand=DB Reisezentrum, brand=EDEKA Getränkemarkt, name=HORNBACH, brand=Rossmann or name=NORMA?

[fortera_au (Andrew W)]

You’d have to look into it yourself, that comment was just to provide some insight into NSI’s history.

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

@Fabi2

brand=Rossmann

not familiar with other cases, but look at usage of brand=Rossmann before this issue was created via attic data at overpass turbo

(note: I have not investigated what was pushing or exterminating this tag via presets or mechanical edits, brand=Rossmann | Tags | OpenStreetMap Taginfo chronology has indication of it being affected by mass edits. In particular I have not checked whether NSI was pushing brand=Rossmann or brand=ROSSMANNN or something else before it pushed brand=ROSSMANNN for some time).

Note, I was involved as I implemented fix Rossmann name by matkoniecz · Pull Request #5652 · osmlab/name-suggestion-index · GitHub fix after brand=ROSSMANN is incompatible with the naming convention · Issue #5510 · osmlab/name-suggestion-index · GitHub was filed by someone else from OSM community.