Why Not OSM let people edit his own country only ? avoiding Vandals

The 10000 servers just meant: if you divide the planet into small areas and zoom levels, each server responsible for one area, you would be able to re-renderer all needed tiles in seconds to minutes.

These large-scale attacks just overload the tile-rendering massively.

But I will say this again: we don’t have to think about technical solutions as none of those will help to mitigate the problem but may only partly reduce the impact until bad actors come up with new ideas.

? You totally miss my point.

Are you running any tileservers with a global scale?

Again you miss my point and hope that Andy Townsend sees what I mean

He would be more than happy if you have a solution for him and the DWG.

My profile is not hidden so maybe Andy Townsend can drop me a private message to eleborate further on the matter ?

I understand the idea and at a first glimpse it makes sense.
But no it would not avoid vandals as mentioned above, instead I think it would help to kill OSM in the long run.
Where is mapping needed most? In areas where there has been no or only little mapping done by now.
Where are most mappers found? In areas that are well mapped by now.
With these restrictions we would end up with a map showing some countries in detail and others left nearly blank. Not what I think OSM should be.
Personally I map quite a bit in my homecountry but also in the countries where I spend my holidays - often some basic armchair mapping to have a useful map while I am there, refining it when back home again.

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If you define regulation in your software in this case: the to be used keys then someone from mars even can OSM-map things about UK- map keys because the software is the ruler in the matter…

If you do want some ideas tackling the problem on the user or changeset (moderation) level, you might want to read Cyber attacks in the OSM space - #13 by Minh_Nguyen where you will find some good ideas and input about how Wikipedia as another open project does this.

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Again I stop putting money in it, I just gave my 10 cents & with this kind of feedback I am broke again…

There’s a balance that needs to be struck here. Our primary means of dealing with vandalism is that another mapper sees there’s a problem and reverts it (or escalates it if unable). Reducing vandalism to smaller areas actually might just reduce our ability to spot it.

That said, I wonder if it is possible to make it so that “suspicious enough” changesets don’t cause tiles to be considered dirty and instead get flagged for attention. Other than the than the “small matter of programming” the big problem is who gets the flag (loads of human attention needed). Could we avoid the need for the flagging part?

For Example:

  • Are there enough people monitoring e.g. osmcha feeds that we don’t need any “trusted user only” views to be constructed. These can be a bit slow to update, but wouldn’t require anything new.
  • would there be enough “local edits” getting criss-crossed with the vandalism that the ‘one off’ tile updates would give good enough visibility without rendering the whole thing?
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I’ve read it, but I don’t actually understand what you’re suggesting :frowning:

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Ok what I suggest:

  1. keys which follows the law/rules of the specific mapped country if there are differences between the country law/rules and the OSM rules. As example: NL: Wikipedia leads to a Dutch Wikipedia page. In the same logic NL: cycleway follows then the mainstream used in the Netherlands NOT the mainstream rules of OSM because they differ from each other, same as NL: busway and so on… In this case even if a person in India is changing keys in the Netherlands then they must follow suite according Dutch law & is easily checked by Dutch mappers on flaws because a Dutch person follows Dutch mapping according their local law (also aplicable on traffic signs, right of way rules and so on) This can be made solid in the software…

  2. Last defense line against map molistating editors have a 7th OSM server as backup synching with the 6 other servers being operational if the mutations being made on these 6 servers are not equal the 7th server does not allow the mutations being effectively put in place as mutation on the OSM-database…

As ever, I don’t think we have a shortage of ideas to combat the problem, what we have is a shortage of people actually implementing any of them.

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and while ideas are thrown back and forth here, TomH is quietly and effectively working on getting more resilience into the OSMF rendering servers.

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Ow problem solved then, no worries back to our cup of tea then :smile:

Someone asked me to eleborate what I meant so I did…

More resilience is not the same as solved, it just lessens the impact on a technical scale.

Again: this won’t be solved on a technical level alone (or only while also destroying the spirit of OSM as an open project. E.g.: do not allow any edits anymore=problem solved ), so you would need to tackle the problem on another level.

I often record a video of something I want to edit later, at home. Then, when I’m at my laptop, I do the actual map changes.
Limiting edits to where I am currently are will limit all my edits to the country where I live.

I reported some vandalism a while back on the island of Crete,Greece. I saw your name in the vandalism but had no idea you were a moderator. Sorry this has happened to you. I unknowingly thought that that this was some disgruntled person on Crete and I was asking around. I now understand I was way off the mark!
Here we deal with things at “ a local level “ but obviously not the case . It’s a pity this happens