Shouldn’t this domain name be reserved for an OpenStreetMap local chapter in Nigeria? It also gives the impression that the OSMF is endorsing OpenStreetMap NG through the use of the domain name.
Last fall, the LWG discussed the usage of osm.ng at their October meeting, and again in December.
Now, the project seems to be using the full “openstreetmap.ng” domain for its test site.
I ask you dear reader, when you visit www.openstreetnap.ng, is there anything here that indicates that this is a project that is not affiliated with the OSMF? This is what it presently looks like:
This site and many other related services are formally operated by the OpenStreetMap Foundation (OSMF) on behalf of the community.
Unless the operations working group has suddenly adopted OSM-NG, this is grossly inappropriate.
I call on @NorthCrab to cease using the openstreetmap.ng domain, turn it over to the OSMF for use by the Nigerian mapping community, and make it clear on his test site that this project is not affiliated with or endorsed by the OSMF.
at least it is about OpenStreetMap and not another organization. For example the following page has already been discussed some years ago, as has the name of the organisation, and apparently it is perfectly fine because nothing happened. For the uninformed: what looks like an official chapter of OpenStreetMap is actually completely unrelated:
“openstreetmap-ng” has been a totally tone-deaf and brazen effort from day one. They have meanwhile even attracted funding from third parties based on the false pretense that they are developing something that will actually benefit OSM. Their whole mindset is captured well in the description that the “OSM NG Founders” group has given itself on their site: “a group of early-stage contributors who helped shape the future of OpenStreetMap. We build the next generation of the OpenStreetMap project.”
This grandstanding must stop. It is not unconceivable that one or another idea that may be test-driven on openstreetmap-ng finds its way into the OSM website proper (by way of some volunteer outside openstreetmap-ng actually doing the hard work) and insofar there might be a grain of truth in openstreetmap-ng having an influence on the further development of OSM, but “building the next generation of the OpenStreetMap project” they are not.
On the contrary - given how many efforts have been made to get them to actually contribute their time and brilliant coding to the existing OpenStreetMap website - they have submitted to the not-invented-here syndrome because they can’t be bothered to be a team player. This mindset is certainly not “the future of OpenStreetMap”, unless we envisage a project where every mapper starts on a blank slate because they dislike working with others.
If this were just about some standalone program where the end-user decides which to use - if it were a new browser or a new office software or something - then I’d say reinventing the wheel can occasionally be good, shed some cruft, get some new ideas in and so on. But openstreetmap-ng is not that; deploying it at osm.org would not only mean swapping out the current software for one that has not been proven in the wild, but also swapping out the people who more or less silently maintain our current setup day-in, day-out in a large team effort by a single maverick who can’t be bothered to work with others. It’s not going to happen, and hence osm-ng must stop pretending.
Let’s try and not beat up our own people/communities. Remember than OSM was established because we wanted an alternative to expensive GIS incumbents.
In the same way that our founders were bold at the beginning, so is this NG project. Yes it might overstate it’s importance, engage in a way which you have issue with and likely make 101 other missteps but it’s coming from a within our own community and @NorthCrab is clearly passionate about what he is doing. That should be celebrated.
As an OpenStreetMapper of 10+ years, I am finding it interesting to see what ideas this sparks. Yes, encourage changes when needed* but recognise that there needs to be a balance otherwise we’ll kill off all ambition.
(*. For me the domain is not a hill worth dying on. On either side: forcing the NG project off the URL, or the NG project stubbornly staying on that domain).
Yes, let’s take the website down. Call the lawyers! Even better, let’s call the police and put that crab in jail (or in a pan with boiling water).
How dare him (it?) to create a whole project by himself, get funds by himself, do everything by himself, without asking for approval of some 20 people??
Poor crab, little he knew about the fake do-ocracy that exists in OSM…
Please, leave the guy alone. I would love to choose between 2 websites, just like I choose editors.
The tone used in this thread (and in any project that threats the current OSM status quo) really makes me sad. It’s about time we have to improve our behavior here. No wonder people do not feel welcome here.
To people complaining about the non-disclosure (which we all know it’s an excuse to dismiss other people’s efforts), take your eyes off the popcorn for a bit and come with me in this journey:
1 - when you enter the website, this is the first thing you see:
I think it’s kinda clear that this is a test website (see the very small yellow square at the top?), and that is independent (see the first paragraph of the page with a link?)
2 - When you click that very very hidden link, you get to the Github repository, which shows this at the beginning:
No, it is not clear at all. When I go to http://www.openstreetmap.ng, this is what I see. Absolutely nothing that indicates this is a test site unaffiliated with the OSMF, and on an openstreetmap.* domain:
Like I said, when you first enter https://www.openstreetmap.ng/ website, per my last message, you see that giant yellow button and other details.
I suppose that, unless you have a crab’s memory, you don’t need to see that again every time. Try opening the website on Incognito Mode and you’ll see the magic.
Dismissing that initial about page after the first time is pretty normal in websites and apps.
This appears to breach the OSMF Trademark policy in several ways, as well as the About page being a straight copy of the actual osm.org About page. So there’s trademark breaches, and (likely accidental, but still) false claims that openstreetmap.ng is operated by OSMF.
Edit: not only is it a breach, but this use appears to be specifically prohibited by section 5.1 of that policy. Being a test site doesn’t excuse that.
Northcrab isn’t exactly behaving as a shining example of our community. He’s doing this solo and has so far ignored concerns from the OSM community. All the funding he has received is going to his own project and reaches neither to the OSMF nor the broader community.
If you have multiple tabs open, and one of them has www.openstreetmap.ng open, it would be very easy to think you’re on openstreetmap.org, since NG has entirely copied the look, feel, and logo of the OSM website. Putting up a banner the first time someone ever visits the site is completely unacceptable.
Please, just stop with the bad-faith arguments and take a deep breath. I have openly supported this project in past comments. And, I still support the efforts of anyone that wants to show off how somethng can be done better, including here.
Using the openstreetmap.ccTLD for an unofficial project is not okay. Using it to make a virtual clone of openstreetmap.org is even more not okay. If you read the LWG minutes from back in the fall, you’ll note that @NorthCrab is well aware of the trademark policy based on the discussions around his use of osm.ng. Despite all this, 9 months later, he is ignoring it.
You will note from the LWG minutes that:
Nigerian community is interested in the domain.
Separate from the legal issues which are clearly violated – the ccTLD openstreetmap domains should belong to local chapters in each country. I.e., openstreetmpap.fr for the French local chapter, openstreetmap.us for the US local chapter, and so forth.
So yes, by all means, continue to work this project, but it needs to stop squatting on a ccTLD domain that rightfully belongs to a future local chapter in Nigeria. I do wonder if you would have the same objection if this project used openstreetmap.br as its website.
The Trademark Policy - OpenStreetMap Foundation lays out the exceptions (aka permitted use without a specific licence) to the exclusive rights that the OSMF (as steward for the community) has in its trademarks. Using an openstreetmap.xx domain is not one of them.
