Note that “unusual and not documented” does not mean “wrong” - many should be simply documented.
Some may require resurvey, some may be a clear typos or written in language other than English and simply to fix by local mappers.
Some may have an obvious meaning and benefit from retagging, including use of some subtag (shop=fuel fuel=coal or shop=spices cuisine=indian). After all, having thousands of toplevel values like shop=soccer_equipment_shop_open_from_8:00_to_18:00 or several duplicate values for the same type of feature makes using OSM data without any benefit at all.
Let me know if this list is useful but outdated (I will setup refreshing it in such case) or pointless/problematic (I can delete it if it is causing more problems than benefits).
In case that something is a valid value listed on the list typical solution would be to create OSM wiki page about given shop value and it will drop on regeneration of the list.
Remember, it is better to not edit than break data in case of tagflidling - create note if unclear or unsure.
Many values should be documented as valid on wiki rather than retagged.
That’s a really long list! Thank you very much.
Unfortunately, editing in the wiki (even source code view) is almost impossible for me because my browser goes down.
It would be very practical to note in the list when something has been fixed.
With many stores, I personally almost always lack an understanding of what the object really offers, because you have to have seen the store in person.
Let’s take a look at the tag with the most uses: shop=nursing_services. In German, this would be a “Krankenpflegedienst”.
Now the question is whether the facility offers a nursing service (tagging: healthcare) or “accessories” for nurses (tagging: shop).
Or the second placement: shop=key_service
Is it a shop=locksmith, a craft=key_cutter or craft=locksmith?
It’s definitively interesting to see how many non-standardised tags (in that similar businesses use a more common tagging, especially if they’re listed in the Wiki) exist just for shop in Germany alone. I feel like they tend to happen when a method to easily pick a shop from a like iD or StreetComplete didn’t exist and/or available documentation wasn’t easily available (when I add a tag I don’t know immediately, I certainly do a research both in the wiki and here in the forum or leave a note if I have absolutely no idea) so many happened from years ago and no one bothered to fix it, though there is one which has been added three months ago by a two years old account.
IMO I’m actually for retagging for standardisation as a way to avoid duplicates and making it easier for tools. I differenciate between these cases:
Too specialised tags. Some tags are quite specialised like shop=office_furniture. Solution: Consider using shop=* fairly general and use the corresponding key for * like shop=furniture + furniture=office.
Bad separator. Some users think that multiple values within a tag is separated by comma instead of semicolon like mapping a “Konditorie-Bäckerei” as a shop=pastry, bakery. Solution: Replace a comma by semicolon like shop=bakery;pastry, though in this specific case, shop=bakery + pastry=yes also is possible (in part because most bakeries, at least of the traditional kind, also are patisseries).
German name in place of an English one: Happens whenever a mapper doesn’t know or didn’t realise we use English for tagging which explains how shop=Gewürzladen sneaked in. Solution: Use the correct English word like shop=spices instead.
Clearly a misspelt name. shop=greencrocer? Solution: Don’t you mean shop=greengrocer?
Alternative tags. Sometimes, a non-standard tag is used because the mapper didn’t know one already exists (if sometimes mapped strangely). This might explain the shop=roaster which refers to a coffee roaster i.e. a place where fresh coffee beans are processed and these typically sell coffee too (though for that one, one can ask whether it should get a separate key). Solution: Replace it with a standardised tag.
Wrong key. In these cases, a shop=* is occasionally used to mean a business in general when more appropriate tags exist. Solution: Replace shop=* into the appropriate tag like craft=*, office=* and amenity=*.
Just unnecessary shop=*. Sometimes, the existing tags are already sufficient and the shop=* exists there redundantly. For example (without knowning the details in-person), the shop=dressed stone one is tagged together with craft=stonemason and is a focusing on tomb stones. Solution: Just remove shop=*.
Some of them definitively would require some surveys thanks to the ambiguity and false friends. For example, shop=oven could mean either shop=fireplace or a shop=appliances which focuses on ovens since German “Ofen” not only refers to ovens (a related word) but fireplaces. Possibly adding a note may help to incentivise a local user to investigate and tag the shop appropriately.
Others are, thanks to the existing existing informations like name=* and description=*, easily fixable from home.
There might be more cases where a non-standard tag can be improved but these should cover most of them, the ones which are used once or twice especially. But even the fairly common shop=gold could be improved (depending on the shop, it could mean a jewellry, but some could very well be a shop=gold_buyer or a shop=pawnbroker instead). Otherwise, I’m fine with adding a non-standard tag to the Wiki if there is simply no better way to tag them.
Some of them definitively would require some surveys thanks to the ambiguity and false friends. For example, shop=oven could mean either shop=fireplace or a shop=appliances which focuses on ovens since German “Ofen” not only refers to ovens (a related word) but fireplaces.
shouldn’t that be shop=stoves? The German term Ofen means stove or oven, but also kiln and furnace, but not fireplace (that would be Kamin).
Generally we should be very very careful when retagging shops. We are still lacking conventions how to tag a lot of specialized shops, and rather than ironing out all these “outliers” by retagging to well established, but only half fitting tags, we should work on documenting the rarer shop values.
Maybe it would help to make a separate listing for cases where:
one of website tags is present, what (if you know language) allows typically to tag shop nearly as well as visiting it allows
there is nearby note referencing this specific shop (so it is waiting for review from local mappers already)
yes, this cases should be remotely fixable - though semicolon-separated shops sometimes can be reduced to single value (but this typically requires visiting shop or at least checking their website)
I would also add that sometimes asking original mapper works.
And cases where website can be found also are often remotely fixable. Sometimes you can find info that shop closed down some time ago (so it can be deleted from OSM).
Currently it is run from my laptop without very regular schedule, but sometimes between daily and weekly.
I run it minutes ago.
Maybe I will finally get a server with nicely scheduled reruns.
that is extra work to deal with MR APIs to setup it, and increases risk of people changing tags without proper checking - but it can be done
maybe as nonpublic task linked from here to reduce risk of bogus edits?
feel free to ping me here about it in few days if people will not be opposed to it
I have now changed some of the tagging, which can obviously be replaced by already established tagging.
I am sure you were acting with the very best intentions and this is not meant to criticize you personally but to highlight the kind of problem that’s easily encountered with retagging.
I only checked 2 or 3 of your edits, and the issue was where you retagged a “shop=mashinery” to shop=plant_hire
I would consider the shop=plant_hire tag bad tagging in general because it can be ambiguous (people putting plants (green live plants) in offices also use this term), and also question the level of specificity (doesn’t distinguish between agricultural machines and construction machines and possibly other types that are commonly hired in the name but reserves the use to construction machinery in the definition). While the tag is documented (by someone who was later banned from the project IIRR), it isn’t really established (around 266 uses compared to different specific machinery tags: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=shop%3Dmachinery#tags
and machines
On top of that, while the place offers construction machinery for hire, according to their website they also sell and repair them, so tagging it as “hire” alone falls short.
By retagging values with typos and possibly undocumented tags to documented (but not established) tags, we are distorting the process of crowd sourcing tag development, leading IMHO to inferior results compared to either not doing anything or discussing the direction with others rather than simply doing.
As a result the thing is still not tagged in a decent way, but it is not visible any more (at first glance), and a bad tag has one more use.
Thanks for adding your concerns on the Talk-Page: Talk:Tag:shop=plant hire - OpenStreetMap Wiki
But it’s not clear to me how ‘machinery’ is supposed to help here? Does it make it clear that you can rent machines? Or are machines for sale? Are machines manufactured? Are machines serviced / maintained? And what kind of machines? Drilling machines? Production machines? Gluing machines? Sorting machines? Gardening machines?
If so, then a general term such as ‘shop=rental’ and then introducing ‘rental=machinery’ with sub-tagging makes more sense, doesn’t it?
But I think this should be done via a proposal in the wiki and with consultation of the tagging ML. In the meantime, I follow the official wiki.
In general, my approach was as follows:
I looked at the node, tried to find a website and find out exactly what the store does. Then I translated the synonyms into English and searched the wiki several times. If there was a hit, I changed it.
I didn’t think about creating a new tag with a wiki page for a tag that already exists with different wording. Does that make sense?
But it’s not clear to me how ‘machinery’ is supposed to help here? Does it make it clear that you can rent machines? Or are machines for sale? Are machines manufactured? Are machines serviced / maintained? And what kind of machines? Drilling machines? Production machines? Gluing machines? Sorting machines? Gardening machines?
+1
If so, then a general term such as ‘shop=rental’ and then introducing ‘rental=machinery’ with sub-tagging makes more sense, doesn’t it?
in this case, it’s not about rental but about sale, repair and rental, so rental alone doesn’t get it right. No idea what is considered „main“ for them
But I think this should be done via a proposal in the wiki and with consultation of the tagging ML.
exactly, this is a field where clearly the best tagging has yet to be found, it merits more discussion and maybe a proposal.
In the meantime, I follow the official wiki.
The wiki is not indicating official status for the tag, just in use, and in minor use I’d say, describing a feature that is different from the one tagged (only rental, no repair or sale)
It’s a pity that you no longer offer the list for the whole of Germany. Presumably the site has become too big?
I was happy to have a look at it from time to time and correct spelling mistakes and use the websites to find and adjust the right values for the shops. Perhaps you could also provide the list for the other Bundesländer?
I disabled for now as apparently shop count in Germany increased to the point that my Overpass query was timing out - but I can enable queries for specific parts of Germany or even all of them