pyro is fine by me, the only thing used around here. Know several shops that show this as their métier but mapped under neither yet it’s their only business.
As for the wiki bottom commentary about automated editing ‘unless you know what you’re doing’ is too little of a warning. Think it should be explicit that automated requires discussion and agreement ‘before’.
Though in general this template makes no sense - either it is 100% unambigous duplicate and bot edit should be proposed, discussed and maybe run. Or this is highly misleading message. In both cases such red box is not needed and useless.
(and this template is only for 1:1 replacements where JOSM or level0 is enough to run bot edit, no programming is needed)
Recently I removed some (via both ways) and hope to get rid or more. In fact I just removed this one as situation is unclear.
Hell no. Go outside and actually map something new instead
Well, iD (all all other software) has numerous issues, but those are surely best dealt with by github issues to give the maintainer(s) some sort of chance to handle them in a sensible order.
Well, the question here is whether it is worth raising an issue in the first place.
Every single one may be an overkill, but documenting ones used +100 times seems like a good idea.
Also, note that this morning it was documented as deprecated and unwanted, so “do nothing, keep state of no documentation” was not available anyway.
Well, I am partially interested in it because editing app that I use for exactly this is using iD presets and I prefer to have quality of this data (to make mapping shops easier, among other targets)
The access to pyrotechnics is often restricted, particularly to the big ones because they are effectively explosives, at least this is the situation in Europe. Therefore the dedicated shops are usually catering for a specialized audience, and not so much of general interest. Still Italians are fond of fireworks and not only perform them 1-2 times a year, but many times, especially in the summer so shops are also more frequent than for instance in Germany. Besides industrial production, there are small artisanal productions, and I think I’d rather have them tagged as craft than as shop (I think it works by appointment, you order beforehand, and not as a walk in retail).
Sounds like there is a substantial difference. Maybe updating the wiki with those definitions might be a be a good first step to make sure the tags are being used for the correct thing.
Pyro is a very regulated business in many countries and there are not many specialized shops dealing with it so I don’t think we need 2 tags for it. As “pyrotechnics” covers a wider range than “fireworks” I think the first one is the better tag. Every firework is pyrotechnics but some pyrotechnics are not firework. Nevertheless some of the shops selling only fireworks call themselves “pyro…” like Pyroland, PyroPro and the like so my favorite is shop=pyrotechnics.
Most of these shops are just dealers, selling industrially produces stuff, so shop=pyrotechnics fits well. Again I would also see small business producing individuall stuff on preordering base as “shop” because “shop” is not limited to retail business exclusively.
If someone wants to be more specific they can still go for pyrotechnics=fireworks (or even for shop=firework or craft=firework or any other tag they like), but a clear recommendation in the wiki would make mapping such shops easier, as @Mateusz_Konieczny already pointed out.
Pyro is a very regulated business in many countries and there are not many specialized shops dealing with it so I don’t think we need 2 tags for it. As “pyrotechnics” covers a wider range than “fireworks” I think the first one is the better tag.
I had though these are both the same meaning, as pyro is literally fire, according to wikipedia, pyrotechnics is also about safety matches and the airbag inflating mechanism. Do we really want to cover these with the same tag as fireworks, or which pyrotechnics did you have in mind that are not covered by fireworks?
Most of these shops are just dealers, selling industrially produces stuff, so shop=pyrotechnics fits well. Again I would also see small business producing individuall stuff on preordering base as “shop” because “shop” is not limited to retail business exclusively.
My experience is different, they are (at least partially) producing them themselves and also firing them up themselves. You pay for fireworks as a service.
Same in Australia, where it is no longer possible in most States for “people” to buy fireworks privately
So there should possibly be two separate tags: shop=fireworks which deal directly with walk-in-off-the-street retail customers in those places where it’s still legal, & maybe shop=trade + trade=pyrotechnics for wholesale operators that only deal with professional pyrotechnicians?
A bit of a humorous aside (from @FIzzie41’s remark about “in most States”), there always seems to be a way to “get” fireworks in a lot of places. You often have to “cross a border” or make a drive. Growing up in San Diego, California, we would go into Mexico, where you could get “a pillowcase full” of dangerous (and very fun) stuff for not very much money (and then hope you didn’t get caught smuggling them back in). It’s a wonder I still have ten fingers and a clean record.
I recall a funny comic from a humor magazine when I was a kid: it showed a “state border” (Illinois and Indiana?) as a line painted along a fence and TWO fireworks shops, one on both sides of the border! Because, you know, “fireworks are illegal in Illinois, you have to drive to Indiana” at the same time “fireworks are illegal in Indiana, you have to drive to Illinois.” Ah, Mad magazine; those were the days.
Even today, there is a “different jurisdiction” I can drive to where “the baseball little league association” (or something like that) will set up these temporary plywood sheds (NO SMOKING! signs are everywhere) and you get these gigantic boxes of “safe and sane” fireworks (the kind you put on a sidewalk or patch of dirt and light on fire and watch a bunch of sparkles foof up taller than you are), usually “made in China.” Whistlers, sparklers, skyrockets, “Roman candles” and such. The prices they charge are quintuple-ridiculous (it’s easy to spend hundreds of money-units for a “block party” amount), but it’s all good fun, “for a good cause” (the kids get balls, bats, gloves, uniforms and helmets, I was once told).
Now, professional (I believe they are called “Class A” and “Class B”) fireworks, like you see at a stadium or a big event, those are an entirely different animal. Such shows cost tens of thousands of money-units, if not much more. I suppose if you were very rich you could call these folks and they’d set up for you at your mansion or private golf course or whatever, but prepare to open your checkbook pretty wide. I wouldn’t even know how to contact those folks, but they are around, as big fireworks shows do happen.
With the un-deprecated, passed 1 of the 2 subject’s shops mentioned somewhere above and added #124 to the OSM database of shop=fireworks. All fire department certificate stamps glued to the window, the ‘menu’ on the shop back wall.
I happened to look at this a few weeks ago. Of the 500 odd shops mapped in the US about 60% have “firework” in their name. I think pretty much all in the UK do so too.
To me pyrotechnics are : flares and other emergency warning signals; special devices used in military exercises; or “flashbangs” used in theatres and other shows which require specific performance characteristics to not set the place on fire, fireworks only usable by a professional trained technician. I always associate the term with professional usage, and not with ordinary fireworks sold to the general public. At least one UK firework shop website states “we do not sell pyrotechnics”.
I’m not clear why pyrotechnics was seen to be a better term.
I believe it was because pyrotechnics is the general term covering all kinds of “pyro” things including firework, at least by general definition in english (as well as in german)
Pyrotechnics is the science and craft of creating such things as fireworks, safety matches, oxygen candles, explosive bolts and other fasteners …
Pyrotechnische Erzeugnisse sind z. B. Streichhölzer oder die Treibladungen in Airbags, insbesondere aber Produkte der Feuerwerkerei sowie Spezialeffekte.
(quotes from Wikipedia english/german). Again some of the shops selling fireworks include the string “pyro” in their name as mentioned earlier.
Nevertheless I would not see any reason to tag those shops selling nothing but fireworks (and no other pyrotechnic stuff) as shop=fireworks.
Yes but it’s a technical term, not the one apparently used in regular English (US or GB) where the shops are called firework shops (see Duck tagging). The tag is non-obvious, something we should avoid. It’s a form of obscurantism, or trying to deal with a tiny number of unusual examples. If I type “pyrotechnics shop” into Google all the returns have firework in the name. We have 34 shops mapped in Pennsylvania, every single one with a name tag has “firework” in their name.
Furthermore shops selling regular consumer fireworks would not sell other pyrotechnic devices (at least in the UK and most US states there are specific laws regulating such shops).
It seems we might have to distinguish 2 types of shops, those catering for the general public and those selling exclusively or mainly to professionals (implying different typologies / legal classification of fireworks), possibly requiring special licenses or similar? Speaking about Germany, the sale of fireworks to the public is only allowed in the last days of the year, save some very small “fireworks” which can be bought the whole year long (like sparklers to hold in the hand), therefore there are no or very few firework shops because many shops and supermarkets will sell them in the allowed period. In Italy the situation is somehow different, also because the producers of fireworks are more present in everyday life (I have seen a lot of such shops, while in Germany I never saw them), but still anything bigger requires a license to buy and they are mostly aiming at professionals and not at the general public (AFAIK). All bigger fireworks usually are classified as explosives and if the sale of explosives is regulated, so will likely be the sale of fireworks. In Italy, the specific fireworks shops tend to be for professionals, while the small fireworks are rather sold as additional products in shops specialized in party decorations and costumes. or toy shops and sometimes tobacco shops.
Yes, the regulations will vary widely both between countries and within a country (when I was a kid only sparklers could be bought in Pennsylvania for July 4th, and firework stores were common just over the border in West Virginia: only 1 on OSM now). I suspect this tagging may have arisen from the perspective of people more familiar with stringent regulations.
Dedicated fireworks shops seem quite common in the UK: there are 3-4 in Nottingham, although I’m not at all sure if they open all year. Last time I bought fireworks was in a supermarket, but they were sold in every little newsagent and convenience store when I was a kid. Obviously, 5th November is peak season, but people use them at other times, notably Chinese New Year).
Anyway, I now have to avoid them completely because of having COPD, so I’d prefer they weren’t so popular.
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