[UK] Speed limit on private roads

Communities United Kingdom
1

In the UK, unadopted roads are roads privately owned by their residents, but that are public rights of way. They are not owned by governmental bodies such as a local authority. The tagging of these roads varies between “unadopted=yes” and “adopted=no” but they mean the same thing.

User Pink Duck believes that because these roads are not owned by a local authority and do not have speed limit orders applied, the tag “maxspeed=none” is appropriate.

I believe that because these roads are privately owned, the maxspeed tag should not be included unless there are signs erected by the owners of the street (the residents).

Can I get some more opinions on this?

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Do the general rules about whether they are lit apply? It’s still part of the public network.

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They are not publicly owned roads though, just like a farm track or a service roads around a quarry. I am still not 100% clear on the status of the national speed limit on these roads (20/30 with street lights, 60/70 without) despite having tried to find an answer several times in the past (not just around OSM).

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They surely are not part of the highways legislation? I live on an unadopted road, its basically just a track. I don’t think any speed limit applies and even if someone shoved one up i’m not sure whether it would be legally binding. Same on any private road. My vote would to only add a tag if its there on the ground.

Cheers
Andy

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5

I should probably preface this by saying that I’m not a lawyer and nothing I say below should be relied on for anything remotely important (including what speed to drive on a road).

According to this HCR Law post the council can impose traffic orders on private roads if they meet certain requirements.

A Sabre thread with a familiar looking OP mentions the same act from the HCR Law post as being the one that originates the 30mph when lit rule as does rule 124 of the Highway Code.

If the definition of road in the traffic order ruling is the same definition of road as for the general ‘it’s 30 if it’s lit’ rules then it would be logical that the same test would apply. Of course, listening to lawyers speak for any length of time it sounds like there are a bunch of exceptions and special interpretations to everything that ever counted as a law so who knows?

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6

If you’re using a route by permission of the owner, then I think there’s probably an implicit obligation to follow any speed limit signs that are displayed.

If you’re using it by virtue of it being a Public Right of Way for the vehicle you’re driving, then things might be different. I’m not sure if any national speed limits apply be default without being signed. Or if there’s technically no speed limit.

I think I’ve read somewhere that some road rules do apply on BOATs, so it’s possible that you could be done for driving without due care and attention, or dangerous driving. I don’t know if you need a driving licence to use a motor vehicle on a BOAT.

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I’m not sure if any national speed limits apply be default without being signed.

I’ve seen one unadopted road where there are speed limit signs at the transition (adopted + 30 mph → unadopted + NSL), but also one where there aren’t (adopted + 30 mph → unadopted + 30 mph?) and also one where there are non-NSL speed limit signs! (adopted + 40 mph → unadopted + 30 mph). The legalities of any of these speed limits I have no clue.

It’s for these reasons I have left the maxspeed tag out of unadopted roads I come across unless there are speed limits signs in place that have clearly been erected by the residents of the road (often small 5 mph or 10 mph signs).

8

Regardless of what is legally enforceable, I’m not sure how that helps?

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9

Helps avoid routing/nav agents displaying an incorrect limit.

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As far as I know, the “rule” is actually that the otherwise mandatory repeater signs aren’t required for a 30mph limit in an urban area with street-lighting. In effect this means that if you’re on a lit public road and haven’t seen a speed limit sign for a few hundred metres, then it will be 30mph (unless you’re in a 20mph zone).

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11

And that’s better than just leaving it untagged, just like unadopted and private roads in every other place in the UK? Especially since it’s still unclear as to what speed limits are on unadopted roads half the time, as discussed above.

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The necessary tags for speed limits in the UK are a bit extensive, but all explained on the wiki page: Key:maxspeed:type - OpenStreetMap Wiki

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I’m not sure they even need to show the initial sign, although it would be pretty unhelpful if they didn’t.

With the usual disclaimer about me not really knowing what caveats apply to legislation I think the relevant bits are the RTRA parts 81 (as cited by the Highway Code) and 82:

81 General speed limit for restricted roads.

(1) It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.

(2) The national authority may by order increase or reduce the rate of speed fixed by subsection (1) above, either as originally enacted or as varied under this subsection.

…

82 What roads are restricted roads.

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 84(3) of this Act, a road is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of this Act if—

(a) in England and Wales, there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart;

( b ) in Scotland, there is provided on it a system of carriageway lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 185 metres apart and the road is of a classification or type specified for the purposes of this subsection in regulations made by the Scottish Ministers.

And then says that the “traffic authority” can change which bits are and aren’t restricted roads if they want.

So presumably if the people building the roads were feeling really sneaky they could start with lighting too spaced out for this rule to apply and then subtly decrease the spacing to catch you out as you approach a camera (although maybe this is banned elsewhere).

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I’m not sure they even need to show the initial sign

Terminal signs are required for any speed limit change. See section 8.2 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf

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15

I’ll start this with the standard “I’m not a lawyer”.

We need to consider there are different definitions of “road” used in OSM, common-british-english, and legal-british-english.

Here, we’re dealing with legislation and Legal English. The definition for road that concerns us comes from the Road Traffic Act 1988. This has a much broader definition that many realise.

A legislative road is any way that that the public have access along, either as a right, permissive access, or “tolerated trespass”. If there is any clear and reasonable signage that refuses access, or makes access to conditional, to ALL forms of travel, then the road is not a Legislative Road.

This means a 1m wide muddy path across a field which public have permissive access on foot, is a road under the RTA 1988.

If a motor vehicle uses any legislative road, then laws affecting legislative roads apply.

In this discussion the legislation in question is the “Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984” which provide speed limit rules for motor vehicles.

All legislative roads have Speed Limit rules. It does not matter if the road is public owned, privately owned, or a 1m wide muddy path. The definition is based on whether the public have at least “tolerated trespass”

The starting point for Speed Limits are National Speed Limits. These are default and created by the structure of the road

The appropriate authority (highway authority) can change the speed limits via traffic orders. And must put up signage for most of the speed limit laws to be enforceable.

For private roads with at least “tolerated trespass” the national speed limits apply for motor vehicles, but a since Highways Authority has not put up required signage, the speed limit which exists cannot be enforced. Unless it is a NSL Restricted Limit.

If a privately owned road give access to pedestrians, but has signs clearly making access conditional for motor vehicles things get complicated. It is still a legislative road since public can access (pedestrian, cyclist), but motor vehicles would be trespassing if they break the rules giving access (5mph speed limit) and breaking national laws if driving above NSL and it was enforceable.

So I suggest the maxspeed tag

  • must be used on unadopted roads with public access which have lighting, or correct signage in place
  • must be used for privately owned roads that are public access through roads
  • should be used for privately owned roads which have public access, but have speeds limit signs making access conditional (permissive)
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16

That seems reasonable unless other information can be found.

Can we in that case agree that “maxspeed=none” on such roads should not be used?

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Referring to the original post in which I am referenced, I disagree that such unadopted roads are always ‘public rights of way’ in the presence of signage such as ‘Private’ or ‘For residents only’. So still believe it appropriate for those cases to be explicitly tagged as not having a speed limit, if private land, not listed by the highways authority, no Traffic Regulation Order, described in the NSG as privately managed and not street lit or signed with a limit. Think of, for example, the Goodwood Festival of Speed hill climb - or TopGear/CarWow on disused airfield runways exceeding NSL. ‘Tolerated trespass’ is certainly a thing.

Further related discussion at Changeset: 159084522 | OpenStreetMap

Also related Reddit topic highlighting that local authority can’t issue TRO or class as ‘restricted highway’ roads not managed by them or on private land.

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@JassKurn has already covered this in detail above, but to reinforce the point…

They don’t need to be public rights of way in order for (some) traffic legislation to apply, per the definition in s. 192 Road Traffic Act 1988:

“road”
(a) in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and
(b) in relation to Scotland, means any road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other way to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes

For England and Wales, that would include roads with access=permissive, access=destination (effectively the case in ungated privately owned unadopted streets, assuming they want to be reachable for deliveries, taxis and vistors) or access=customers.

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19

That’s is wrong. A traffic order can be created by the Highway Authority for any way that meets the legal definition of road.

The following summary of a recent judgement may help

link to article

With regard to the events type you mentioned, the law does apply if there is tolerated trespass.

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20

The judgement ruled as well as physical barrier it was also conditional with: “or in defiance of prohibition express or implied”. So I accept that if there is a convention of tolerated trespass by local folk for amenity access with a history of no restriction then it may be possible to impose a TRO. However, that is not the usual case for most of these short ‘private’-style signed residences.