First of all, I apologize for writing in English, but I have a question for the Russian community. I’m currently documenting (and perhaps even standardizing if consensus can be used) the use of shop=newsagent/kiosk/tobacco/books tags.
In many countries, there is a type of shop that sells most of the following:
Newspapers
Magazines
Books (but not as wide selection as a book shop)
Stationary
Post cards
Bus tickets
Concert tickets
Lottery tickets
Post stamps
Tobacco
Mobile phone credit
Drinks and candy
The name of this type of shop varies across countries. In the Netherlands and Italy, they are most often refered to as tobacco shop (although tobacco is only a small fraction of what is being sold). In Switzerland and Luxembourg, they are refered to as kiosk (although they are not necessarily small buildings on the sidewalk). In Germany, they seem to be referred to as lottery shops (although they offer much more than just lottery tickets). However, the concept seems to be quite similar in most of these countries.
Do such shops also exist in Russia, and how are they referred to? Which of the products that I listed do they sell? Thanks in advance for any responses.
That’s not an easy question, actually.
In Russian, there is term “kiosk” (киоск). But currently, it refers both to type of building of small shop and to several kinds of such shops.
This kind of shops previously (in times of USSR) were selling following stuff (not all together, but some single type of goods):
icecream
tobacco
newspapers, magazines, postcards
lottery tickets
concert tickets
kvass (something like non-alcohol beer made of rye bread)
beer
There were also some service kiosks:
locksmith (making keys, fixing zippers and bag locks)
Later, after USSR was broken apart in 1991, many small shops were opened to sell everything you can imagine. Original kiosks evolved - started to sell candies, chips, etc.
Currently, in addition to types mentioned above, you can see here kiosks, selling fruits, mixed goods, clothes, different kinds of food, hot food (hotdogs, tea, coffee, sandwiches, ethnic food, grilled chicken, etc.).
There is another term to call these little shops - “палатка” (palatka, in literal translation - tent). It comes more from the transitional period (1991-2005, I’d say) but it’s in use just as “kiosk”. People are tended to use term “kiosk” referring to old-style little shops while “palatka” can be used for both types.
I see… So it seems like the Russian community has to decide whether shop=kiosk only refers to the ‘traditional’ type of kiosk, or to any shop in small building on the pavement. As an outsider, I would guess the first would make most sense? The other type of shops could then be refered to as shop=clothes, amenity=fast_food, etc.
Would you refer to shops that sell icecream, tobacco and newspapers but are not on the sidewalk also by the name kiosk? In other words, do you distinguish shop=kiosk and shop=newsagent?
That’s hard to say for the whole people here… in some previous discussions, there were opinions, that it’s better to separate the type of building and assortment of goods. I think it makes some sense, because here in OSM we do not reflect the exact way of calling this or that shop.
For example, in the US, any “pharmacy” sells not just drugs and medical supplies, but batteries, food, toys, postcards, headphones, calling cards etc. And, say, Walgreens (called “pharmacy”) does not have a huge difference with Walmart (called in other way). Both stores have prescriptions, food etc. While in Russia, “pharmacy” will sell drugs and medical supplies only. And there are a lot of other examples.
The same goes to kiosk.
Thinking about general international method of tagging, we should avoid names leading to assumptions, because assumptions are different in different countries. So, in ideal case, we should mark the tiny shop located in the single small building by its building type and by assortment of goods there. Something like “building=kiosk shop=tobacco”. It will not lead to any assumptions and, say, any person with navigation software will be able to find tobacco shop regardless to local traditions and regulation to sell or not to sell the tobacco in the shops locally called “kiosks”.
My own opinion is that we should follow the “one property - one tag” rule. Combining properties always leading to misunderstanding and wrong usage of tags. Or, in other case, it’s possible to reflect the local assumptions and mark “pharmacy in American meaning of this word” as something like “shop=us_pharmacy”, but it seems to be ridiculous.
Ещё там продают цветы.
Но тенденция называть киоск - “киоском” не из-за ассортимента товара, а из-за не капитального строения. С чем кстати сейчас борется правительство, запрещая продавать там пиво / водку.
Also they oftenly called “ларёк” = “laryok”.
Also such kiosks can be two types - specialized, or general. Second type kiosks can be called “newspapers” on label but sell any paper production (puzzles, toilet paper) and some assortment of junk food, batteries, cell operators prepaid cards and god knows what.
Also in real world they dont have fixed opening hours - operator can leave for hour or dont open kiosk at all.
Как соотносится то, что слева, с тем что справа? Для продажи того, что слева, в нормальных странах используют торгоматы. А справа уже магазины…
К стати, если захотеть, то и киоски могут нормально выглядеть, цветочный к примеру:
In my opinion designation of this objects is important itself. Doesn’t matter which kind of tag you will use. It’s many countries, many cases and tagging methods.
I have also been in touch with some other language communities, and it seems that freestanding shops named kiosk that sell newspapers, drinks, and snacks etc. are a quite widespread phenomenon. Apart from Russia, they exist in a very similar form in Spain, Poland, Germany, and Greece. Perhaps they could be tagged as shop=newsagent, but in most of these countries, there is a clear difference between kiosks and newsagents. So personally I think we could keep the tag shop=kiosk. In Russia, it would then refer to the general type of kiosks.
