Hi everyone
I want to propose new tagging scheme for marking leagues being played at sport venues.
Rationale
I’d like to group places where events for particular sport leagues are conducted - eg. 36 soccer stadiums for Champions League qualified teams, etc.
Tagging
Proposed tagging should apply for leisure=stadium and leisure=sports_centre (probably also leisure=sports_hall) objects.
I propose to add new key sports_league=*to those places with values like int:Champions League | en:Premier League | de:Bundesliga etc.
Those values list should be maintained somewhere, eg. at OSM Wiki page.
key
I believe sports_league=* is human-understandable key being in line with OSM best practices, but feel free to propose better name.
value
Value should be prefixed with country code where league is mainly being played - and international games shall be prefixed with int: (as for international).
Actual value of new tag should be well-known name of league, without sponsorship names - so eg. french Ligue 1, not Ligue 1 McDonald’s
multiple values
Multiple values should be splitted with ; - as in other OSM tags.
I was thinking about few other tagging schemes and dropped them for following reasons:
one relation per league with stadiums as relation members: It’s hard to maintain, relations should not be categories.
values like en:1 for highest level, en:2 for second one etc: It may be difficult to set in order, especially for regional-level games.
using values without country prefix: League names may repeat.
I am open to your comments - is it good idea to map it, is it god idea how to map it
It’s not (yet) a formal proposal of a new tag, this thread is for opinions gathering
As we’re pretty free to map as we see fit, feel free to commence. I don’t see a reason why this should not or could not be mapped.
Sure, there will be those who won’t like it for Reasons™
I will list some, as they come to mind:
Leagues played may change every season so you’d need to check each cycle if it’s still correct. Kinda like opening hours need to be resurveyed every couple of weeks.
It is information not immediately available on the ground. You need to ask the fans or check with the press.
“Played league” is not a property of the stadium but of the club that plays in it. What if two clubs are playing in the same stadium? Are we going to map properties of clubs, and other organisations?
This feels more encyclopedia-like than geographical information to me. While it’s true OSM allows a lot of freedom to map whatever you like, it feels like if taken to extremes we’d end up reproducing wikipedia in the OSM database.
Would it be better to ensure that wikidata contains or points to these details, and that the OSM objects have wikidata tags?
Also note that the Bernabeu relation you pointed to doesn’t tell you which club plays there. As the previous poster said, league participation is more a property of the club than the stadium, so it feels like adding league tags would be a bit out of context.
But if you really do want to go ahead, a few points come to mind:
As already mentioned, this information would change frequently due to promotions and qualifications. How would this be dealt with? At what point between seasons would this be updated?
There is no reference in your tags to the sport involved. Using very generic names like “League 1” could be ambiguous, especially for stadiums used for multiple sports, or for both male and female competitions, e.g. consider a club with its women’s team in Division 1 and men’s team in Division 2.
I’m not sure about the “int” prefix. “International” in football terms usually refers to games between nations, like the World Cup, rather than club competitions like the Champions League.
Would the tag change as soon as a team is eliminated from the Champions League, or only at the end of the season?
Woukd you tag all competitions including knock-out cups as well as leagues, e.g. FA Cup, Copa del Rey, Super Cup? The Champions League is something of a hybrid in this sense.
Related to that, how would you tag stadiums used by both club and national teams?
Would there be a threshold for how often the stadium is used for a particular league? E.g. a few NFL (American Football) games have been played in Europe but I don’t think you would want to tag those venues as NFL stadiums. Similarly the Spanish national soccer team plays at quite a few different stadiums around Spain from time to time, how would you reflect this.
At the other end of the glamour scale, consider a municipal sports facility with multiple pitches or courts, for multiple sports, with teams for all age groups from Under 12 upwards, all competing in their own organised leagues - how would that be tagged?
“Played league” is not a property of the stadium but of the club that plays in it. What if two clubs are playing in the same stadium? Are we going to map properties of clubs, and other organisations?
I think we could map which club(s) have the stadium as their home. If you can identify the club you can lookup somewhere else in which leagues their strongest teams are playing in each sports.
This is not necessarily a 1:1 relationship, for example the Olimpico in Rome is the home of 2 competing 1st league soccer teams (AS Roma and SS Lazio) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadio_Olimpico
Usually federations classify stadiums. For certain leagues (like Champions League) a minimum category is needed. I guess these classifications could be mapped as they are a property of the stadium and don’t change from year to year.
Those stadiums all have Wikidata tags. So the information is already available, in detail, through linked open data. Especially useful for ephemeral or more-complex-then-first-appears information.
