One of the conclusions of the vote on how to end corporate vandalism was that:
the work of organizations/companies can still be beneficial to the community and a complete ban is not a sustainable solution
stricter rules for organized edited teams and consequences for not respecting them must be decided by the local community.
Let’s gather and discuss ideas for rules, and then later consequences for not respecting them.
The goal is to come up with a first version and try it out on a small scale.
If this works well, restrictions can be loosened over time.
@nitinatsangsit: would you mind please collecting ideas from Facebook vote members who might not be able to communicate in English?
@jinalfoflia: could you please list all categories of OSM edits you have done and planned to do with Grab and prioritize them based on their importance to the business? (e.g. improve street names, add missing residential roads, realign road segments, improve signs directions…)
PS: if you want a full ban and already voted or B), then no need to comment, your vote counts but we need a minimal solution as a compromise.
@cmoffroad I would like to suggest two improvements to this effort:
the resulting rules should be documented on the OSM wiki, this way not only it can benefit from the collaborative nature of Wikis, but it also exists in a sort of permanent space where other directed mappers can look through as well. The rules can then be ratified by the community using existing OSM voting mechanisms.
I think we’re jumping the gun a little to go straight to the rules, I would suggest that we document the major issues first, define them in general terms, then propose solutions and rules for each issue documented. This will make sure nothing gets left out of the discussion and we can try to find possibly more creative and better solutions to the problems the community is facing.
Definitely. The rules are meant to apply to any organized editing team and should be visible to any organization and mapper.
Vote: What is the “existing OSM voting mechanism”? who can vote? where is it documented?
Beware that people who voted for B) will most likely downvote any rules, essentially making the temporary ban permanent.
I have summarized below a rough overview of all issues. FYI, I have no more time to revisit/debate these. I have done my part to raise them and issue a vote.
It’s only fair to say that the biggest complaints revolved around:
remote organizations overriding local mappers changes
remote organizations using their own highway classification to fits their agenda (e.g. Grab => residential everywhere to reach any roof presence)
In line with nitinatsangsit, I think in the first version, organizations should:
have a single point of contact inside the organization who is responsible for OSM campaigns and quality assurance and can respond proactively to forum feedback and incidents (changeset comments)
present each campaign in the forum (as Grab has nicely done recently) to ensure it fits the rules
use tag import=xxxx for any new additions (points, ways)
refrain from changing any existing highway classification
be informed > warned > temporarily banned > permanently blocked on repeated infractions
I hope 2 things:
whoever is still part of the community and cares enough can come up with a minimum acceptable solution for most parties
people who left OSM or the forum in part or fully because of corporate vandalism join back under these new rules (Tom Layo, Beddhist, Paul_012, Nutchanon Wetchasit, …)
If this succeeds, then we have a bigger community and we can look into a proposal to have better community guidelines and a process for moderation.
Until then, I will be taking a long break from this forum.
Recurring Common issues
overriding changes from local mappers
including valid highway classifications
watching changes in areas and reverting them
conflicting own guidelines and highway classification methodology
lack of local knowledge about the features of the Thailand road network and landscapes (farm huts are not residential houses!)
adding thru-traffic residential roads everywhere in rural/farming/agricultural areas resulting in routing nightmare
changing (valid) tracks and service roads to residential
lack of communication
mappers not responding to changeset comments
mappers not responding to direct messages
organization not responding to concerns (exaggerated curves)
organization giving empty promises and pb reappearing years after
lack of quality control
inconsistency across mappers (e.g. classification)
overwhelming mass edits
use hundreds of different mappers per campaign in small areas following a longitude line
commit hundreds of daily changesets in small areas (hard to review)
exaggerating curves including at visible sharp intersections
These are the attributes that we are actively planning a project around or have been mapping in the past.
Missing road geometry and possible map data errors related to road geometry like sharp angles, smoothness issues
Realignment in case there is a misalignment
Missing Street Names
Validation Tool issues from JOSM
Map errors related to oneway inconsistency or Turn Restrictions
Points of Interest
The remaining attributes and features on OSM are modified/added basis on the feedback received through our feedback channels or via ground-truthing by our local teams.
Following up on our conversation in the previous thread, we were wondering if there are any suggestions for a location that is convenient for most of the folks, or as a first step towards that, we wanted to invite you all folks to virtually meet up to discuss more about the mapping projects in Thailand, understand the new data contribution policy guidelines as well as we’d really like to hear the feedback on ways we can work better together. Here are the details to join:
Link: Zoom Link
Date: 26th May 2022
Time: 5:30 PM SGT - 7 PM SGT / 4:30 PM - 6 PM Thailand time