RFC - Line arrangements proposal

Dear all,

The work started in 2018 about lines attachments/management has reached a new step.

I propose line_arrangement=* to document how (power) lines cables are arranged and RFC for this proposal is now open.
It mainly covers overhead power lines but underground cables and telecommunication lines as well.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Lines_arrangements

It aims to provide a global set of values to complete what is currently done with design=* specifically in each world regions.
It doesn’t change nor replace existing tagging, only creating a new key with 7 values.

Let’s discuss it there or on Talk page, best regards.

I’ve added two photos to the OSM wiki showing new style pylons in UK (ironically taken nearly 8 years ago).

New style diamond pylons

New style T pylons

Old and new pylons

2 Likes

Which allows to solve this comment, thank you
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_talk:Lines_arrangements#t_pylon

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From the point of view of a data consumer without any specialist knowledge about power infrastructure: Is it possible to use this proposed key, along with the existing ones, to unambiguously figure out where to place (bundles of) cables in a 3D rendering? If so, how would I best approach this?

At the moment, I only have a rather old implementation – originally created by @Peda – which doesn’t take many of the more recent tags into account.

Hi @Tordanik

That’s a good question I could answer in the proposal as well.

3D rendering will give best results with combination of line_arrangement and design.
Design will bring dimensions of tower model and arrangement will disambiguate how lines arrange around each support.
Some designs may allow several different arrangements. For instance two-level, delta_two-level, delta_three-level, portal_two-level can all support horizontal or triangular arrangements.

We could start implement more accurate 3D rendering when this key will have been reviewed.

I’d add that transitions between arrangements are difficult parts. Currently nothing allows to document how bundles continues between different arrangement sections.
It could be defaulted for common cases and specialized with line_management=transpose and few more tagging remaining to be defined.

Sorry to reply here but the wiki blocks creation of accounts with open proxies. I’m allowed to create an OSM account and edit the map… Whatever, as long as someone reads this…

There is an interesting setup of powerlines along several spots of the Northeast Corridor. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lNalZ3uGFzI/maxresdefault.jpg

Above picture is at Jersey Avenue in New Brunswick. At the top are two different regular circuits (“Deans-Linden” and “Deans-Aldene”); below those are 4 25Hz split-phase 138kV lines. 14 conductors, 6 circuits, two poles, two operators, two different frequencies.

I figured this might be a good example for the example page.

Hi @IsStatenIsland and thank you for this example.

Currently, the proposal won’t address complex configurations as it requires further thinking about how to write them.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Lines_arrangements#Complex_configurations

Your picture shows a combination of horizontal (regular 3-phases circuits) and vertical (the 4 25 Hz lines).

It could be handled with line_arrangement:matrix=(horizontal)|(vertical), remaining to be defined
See Proposal talk:Lines arrangements - OpenStreetMap Wiki

All the best

Cycling around by sheer coincidence encountered the below at a substation which had 5 digit numbered tag prefixed to the name ‘Guardiagrele’. Never ever seen such a configurations, how would this be tagged with the new scheme?

Ta

The route tracker puts them here, top left at the little excursion.

Edit: The substation tags

image

Hi

This is a good question and it hasn’t nothing related to the substation.
line_arrangement is intended for power supports so power=tower inside the substation.

I find the middle phase to much higher than the two others so line_arrangement=semi_horizontal would be unsuitable.
line_arrangement=delta is fine

By the way and out of topic here, some tagging on the substation could be:

  • industrial=electrical => utility=power
  • ref:terna=* => ref:IT:terna

All the best

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Thanks, also added the location:transition tag as what these do. The ref:IT:terna would be a first on the TI database, line_arrangement now upped to 148x tagged, few delta.

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Hi

Indeed, it’s pretty new on many topics.
It’s an attempt of tagging refinement to avoid any local conflict. Terna could be used for very different topics anywhere else in the world so the IT namespace will prevent conflicts.

It’s great, thank you :slight_smile: