On the name of Persian Gulf

In some cases, for different languages, communities have agreed to tag “name”=“Name in one language/Name in the other”.
E.g. Relation: ‪Río Cuareim / Rio Quaraí‬ (‪5122713‬) | OpenStreetMap

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A Persian/Arabic bilingual name is probably the best approach for the Persian Gulf’s “name” tag, and probably also for nearby bodies of water like the Strait of Hormuz and Gulf of Oman, both of which also have the Arabic name as the “name” tag. The explanation in this article would support such a change.

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Please see the international documents of the site below

and also
Please see these documents as well




In fact, the Arabian Gulf is the old name of the Red Sea. Even now, the local residents of the Red Sea coast know it as the Arabian Gulf.
But in the case of the Persian Gulf, the problem is not only in naming; Those who insist that the name of the Arabian Gulf should be placed here, their goal is to be able to take over the water borders of Iran and rule over it later.

در حقیقت خیلج عربی نام قدیم دریای سرخ است. الان هم ساکنان محلی ساحل دریای سرخ آنجا را به نام خلیج عربی می شناسند.
اما در مورد خلیج فارس مشکل تنها در نامگذاری نیست؛ کسانی که اصرار میکنند نام خلیج عربی روی اینجا گذاشته شود هدفشان این است که بعدا بتوانند مرزهای آبی کشور ایران را هم تصاحب و بر آن حکمرانی کنند…

If you are genuinely trying to come to a community consensus on this topic, posting a comment like that is not going to help achieve that consensus.

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Just dropping in these related topics: Atlantic Ocean: repeated name removal and RFC: Intentionally omitted name tags

TLDR: Features with multiple valid names (and not just multilingual names) are a little difficult to deal with in OSM right now.

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Dear SomeoneElse
I don’t want to start a fight. The documents that are available on the website below show what I said
www.persiangulfstudies.com

So don’t attempt to start a fight.

I don’t know why all this resistance?
What is the reason that you do not want to use the international name of the Persian Gulf as its main name?

I spoke with the Iranian Foreign Minister and the Iranian Judiciary, and soon a lawsuit will be filed against you in the International Court of Laha, if the name of the Persian Gulf is not changed to its original name.

In my opinion, it is not good at all that you are forced to accept international laws by a court order. In the international laws, the name of the Persian Gulf is a historical name that is 5000 years old, and contrary to the international laws, you have changed its original name to the Arabian Gulf, and you are asking others to call it the local name of the Persian Gulf.

In the past, we filed a complaint against Google Earth for changing the name of the Persian Gulf to the Arabian Gulf, and they had no choice but to accept the ruling of the international court. I never wanted this action to be taken against the OSM community, but with your continued resistance, this action by the Ministry of Affairs Iran’s foreign affairs will be held this year.
You have until the end of March 2024 to think and change the fake name of the Arabian Gulf to the Persian Gulf.

I have nothing more to say

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I think the voices in this thread arguing for using the Persian Gulf name (@ChehrehBargi and @Ali_Zangeneh) would be better off trying to constructively help resolving this issue you mention. For instance by proposing concrete schema changes and/or developing useful name selection algorithms for renderers to use.

Throwing documents around without thoroughly engaging with the reasoning behind the current choice of name will get you nowhere. At least try to steelman the position you disagree with before attacking it.

Throwing legal threats at us will definitely get you nowhere and only makes it seems as if you’re arguing in bad faith.

Which fight? I have not started a war. The things I have said so far are not threats, they are events that have happened and we are witnessing them. Wherever there are multiple opinions, whoever makes a claim has to prove it, and I provide evidence for what I say. We are talking about the borders of a country. Certainly, all people of every nation are sensitive towards their homeland and love it. No one will be satisfied to be separated even a bit from the water and soil of his country.

کدام دعوا؟ من جنگی شروع نکرده ام. مطالبی که تا به حال گفته ام تهدید نیستند اتفاقاتی هستند که افتاده است و شاهد آن هستیم. در هر جایی که چند نظر مختلف وجود داشته باشد، هر کسی ادعایی دارد باید آن را اثبات کند و من هم برای سخنانم مدارک ارائه می دهم. ما در مورد مرزهای یک کشور صحبت میکنیم. قطعا همه مردم هر ملتی نسبت وطن خود حساس است و آن را دوست دارد. هیچ کس راضی نخواهد شد حتی ذره ای از آب و خاک کشورش جدا بشود.

This probably refers to attempted threats like

Just as a general clarification:

While I assume that that should be “Law” and not “Laha” it doesn’t really matter as it doesn’t exist. What does exist is the ICJ however that only hears cases between countries.

I would note that all the other legal “claims” are just as ridiculous.

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Will the upcoming vector maps solve the problem?

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Side steps but doesn’t quite solve. Vector maps allow users to chose a language for their labels.

If I chose my language as Persian (Farsi), then the label would show up as خلیج فارس (which I believe translates into English as Persian Gulf) because name:fa=خلیج فارس. Problem solved! Except…

…let’s say I chose English, there would then still be a debate about whether it should show as Persian Gulf or Arabian Gulf. Both terms are in English and both are still valid.

(As it happens, it would currently shown Persian Gulf as name:en=Persian Gulf and alt_name:en=Arabian Gulf)

This may work, but I am quite certain that there would then be complaints that “that name” is listed first, when “this name” should be! :roll_eyes:

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Pri enhavo de la etikedo «name» de plurlandaj objektoj oni jam skribis ĉe la vikio (angle).

Oficiala lingvo de Sauda Arabujo, barejno, Kataro, Kuvajto, Irako, Omano, UAE estas araba, oficiala lingvo de Irano: persa, do la nomo estu en tiuj du lingvoj.

The translation tools seem not to understand Esperanto, so for the benefit of everyone else, Google suggests what you wrote translates as:

"Content of the “name” tag of multi-country objects has already been written on the wiki (in English).

Official language of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Oman, UAE is Arabic, official language of Iran: Persian, so the name should be in those two languages."


Mr. SimonPoole
The border of the countries is not a joke, and so is the water and soil of each country.
Every place has its own name. If someone tells you today to change the name of your house, tomorrow they will also say: This house is not yours and get out of it.
The fact that you say that the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Gulf should be written together, the Arabian Gulf is the old name of the Red Sea, and using the Arabian Gulf here is wrong. This is the Persian Gulf and it should be called the same in all languages.

مرز کشورها شوخی نیست و همین طور آب و خاک هر کشور.
هر جایی نام خاص خود را دارد. اگر امروز کسی به شما بگوید اسم خانه خودتان را عوض کنید، فردا هم خواهد گفت: این خانه مال تو نیست و از آن برو بیرون
این که عنوان میکنید خلیج فارسی و خلیج عربی باهم نوشته شود، اصلا خلیج عربی نام قدیم دریای سرخ است و استفاده از خلیج عربی برای اینجا اشتباه است. اینجا خلیج فارس است و در تمام زبان ها به همین نام باید باشد.

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EO

  1. Sur OSM ni mapigas aktualajn objektojn, do nomo kiu estis uzata antaŭ kelkaj jarcentoj tute ne gravas.
  2. Ĉiu lingvo havas siajn regulojn pri nomi geografiajn objektojn. Do ekzemple en la pola lingvo Relation: ‪Калининградская область‬ (‪103906‬) | OpenStreetMap nomiĝas «Obwód królewiecki» ne «Obwód kaliningradzki» kaj https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9326283 estas «Zatoka Perska» ne «Zatoka Arabska» kaj vi ne rajtas ŝanĝi ilin.

EN

  1. On OSM we are mapping present-day features. so the name which were being used centuries ago is not important.
  2. Each language has its own rules about naming geographic objects. For example in polish Relation: ‪Калининградская область‬ (‪103906‬) | OpenStreetMap is «Obwód królewiecki» not «Obwód kaliningradzki» and https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9326283 is «Zatoka Perska» not «Zatoka Arabska», you are not allowed to change them.