Odd edits in Italy

Two more: user IDs user_19480843 and user_19481216 .

Edit: I’ve now reverted both of those.

SomeoneElse wrote:

Yes, You can!

(Sorry Andy for off-topic, but that was just too nice!)

A question about the Stelvio Pass:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/way/901697069 is part of the Stelvio Pass. As you can see, in the last 3 months there have been a couple of changes. One was from primary to secondary in https://osm.org/changeset/133570560 and then back again by https://osm.org/user/saifanjahmal (one of Martino’s accounts - see above). Martino also removed the names, which seems odd.

I suspect that the correct tagging here should:

  • be highway=primary
  • have the names restored

The whole section (not just this way) needs looking at - see this changeset by “saifanjahmal”. I have not reverted 136985265 by “jareth-joden” (now deleted, likely a Martino sock-puppet) because I suspect that more work is required.

Looks like original user IDs are being used in creating new user IDs

While I can understand the initial desire to get the user to use their main account instead of the throwaway ones, what they are doing violates the ToS for openstreetmap.org and there is no reason why that account cannot be blocked for that on its own.


Absolutely - we (the DWG) have been in contact with the admins a couple of times to try and see what options there are to restrict them technically. Here “everyone knows” who the bad actor is, but see also https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/4018#issuecomment-1576835352 which explains how currently the osm.org website allows an account name to “sidestep” blocks, comments (and probably OsmCha etc. reactions) rather too easily.

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What appears to be happening is that Martino is creating a new account (with a disposable email address), giving it an account name that has been used before, and then deleting that account. The userid (“19493588” in the latest example) is new but the user name (“gapathys” in this case) corresponds to an old deleted user - actually 14 different old, deleted users!. As far as OSM is concerned the “new” gapathys is an entirely new account (notwithstanding the ToS violation mentioned by Simon).

Another question, this time about https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1176269988/history in Pusiano. Can someone have a look at that and edit it so that it seems correct? It was edited by the first “gapathys” user (that user appears to have been created by Martino and then subsequently deleted by him). I’m sure what is in OSM (last edited by me) is not correct, so can someone local please take a look and edit appropriately?

Based on this wikidata (Q112673741) item it looks like this is a legit edit.

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Our friend is now quibbling about the capitalisation of the “S” in “santi”. I’ve not enough knowledge about Italian language norms to comment, but did revert their changes from this morning back to how you left it. If you think it should be “Santi” not “santi”, edit it again and it’ll stay that way.

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San, Santi, Santo, Santissimo, all road signs (in Italy) show the S or SS here, incl. when abbreviated, that I’ve seen with the Sses capitalized.

It’s hard to believe the building has now gone thru 25 yes/no revert the reverted cycles. Appalling is understated. How tootles the common rules of conduct are.

Since he’s going on with his nonsense battle and we don’t have any guideline on Uppercase or Lowercase of “Santi” I think it’s better to leave it with an uppercase (so maybe he will stop creating accounts just to change a letter).

Martino seems to be arguing for “S” here, which based on this above seems to be correct.

However he’s not editing individual objects - as I write this his latest change is of about 600 objects. Just changing “s” to “S” on one object won’t stop him - what will is the eventual realisation that he cannot win.

| Mannivu Italy moderator
June 9 |

  • | - |

Since he’s going on with his nonsense battle and we don’t have any guideline on Uppercase or Lowercase of “Santi” I think it’s better to leave it with an uppercase (so maybe he will stop creating accounts just to change a letter).

I thought we did have an agreement to spell them uppercase

I’ve changed it to “S”.

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I believe you, but I couldn’t find any info in the Italian guidelines on the Wiki.

Just sampling a random road, now a tagless line top of and existing oneway road section called Via Trieste getting an on/off with the name of Via Madonna della Neve. Of course way on way is already a basic wrong on ground level, BUT, the wall sign at the corner coming right out of the tunnel does say Via Madonna della Neve (della in small on the chiseled name sign) which coincides with naming later sections of that (very narrow) road. It’s also where at the next split the wall sign says Via Trieste to the right.

So, I know for sure, Via Trieste needs splitting at the fork and first section renamed to Via Madonna della Neve and the tagless, incorrect geometry way to be removed. Also the nameless first section from the fork to left is Via Madonna della Neve per wall sign and the direction of the oneway needs verifying as the imagery I have access to shows it the opposite way.

In short, a cazzatura to be blunt on just this one sample.

You’ve supplied a picture, but not linked to the problem in OSM. It looks from the picture that there’s a duplicate way. I’d suggest editing the area so that it is correct (deleting the unconnected road and ensuring that the connected one has the correct name for the correct length).

JOSM’s validator will likely identify further examples of this sort of thing.

Done and more in the Via Trieste/Cazzaniga/della Neve zone plus leaving a note for the oneway direction verification on della Neve

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Just for info, the “deleted user” edits are continuing, and I’m continuing to update the list above.