Odd edits in Italy

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-06T07:58:47.603Z

SimonPoole:

what they are doing violates the ToS for openstreetmap.org

Absolutely - we (the DWG) have been in contact with the admins a couple of times to try and see what options there are to restrict them technically. Here “everyone knows” who the bad actor is, but see also https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/4018#issuecomment-1576835352 which explains how currently the osm.org website allows an account name to “sidestep” blocks, comments (and probably OsmCha etc. reactions) rather too easily.

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-06T08:36:18.642Z

SekeRob:

Looks like original user IDs are being used in creating new user IDs

What appears to be happening is that Martino is creating a new account (with a disposable email address), giving it an account name that has been used before, and then deleting that account. The userid (“19493588” in the latest example) is new but the user name (“gapathys” in this case) corresponds to an old deleted user - actually 14 different old, deleted users!. As far as OSM is concerned the “new” gapathys is an entirely new account (notwithstanding the ToS violation mentioned by Simon).

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-06T19:14:57.961Z

Another question, this time about https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1176269988/history in Pusiano. Can someone have a look at that and edit it so that it seems correct? It was edited by the first “gapathys” user (that user appears to have been created by Martino and then subsequently deleted by him). I’m sure what is in OSM (last edited by me) is not correct, so can someone local please take a look and edit appropriately?

Mannivu · 2023-06-07T20:24:53.729Z

Based on this wikidata (Q112673741) item it looks like this is a legit edit.

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-08T11:28:43.101Z

Mannivu:

it looks like this is a legit edit.

Our friend is now quibbling about the capitalisation of the “S” in “santi”. I’ve not enough knowledge about Italian language norms to comment, but did revert their changes from this morning back to how you left it. If you think it should be “Santi” not “santi”, edit it again and it’ll stay that way.

SekeRob · 2023-06-08T12:13:20.267Z

San, Santi, Santo, Santissimo, all road signs (in Italy) show the S or SS here, incl. when abbreviated, that I’ve seen with the Sses capitalized.

It’s hard to believe the building has now gone thru 25 yes/no revert the reverted cycles. Appalling is understated. How tootles the common rules of conduct are.

Mannivu · 2023-06-09T08:00:04.044Z

Since he’s going on with his nonsense battle and we don’t have any guideline on Uppercase or Lowercase of “Santi” I think it’s better to leave it with an uppercase (so maybe he will stop creating accounts just to change a letter).

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-09T08:13:02.781Z

Mannivu:

I think it’s better to leave it with an uppercase (so maybe he will stop creating accounts just to change a letter).

Martino seems to be arguing for “S” here, which based on this above seems to be correct.

However he’s not editing individual objects - as I write this his latest change is of about 600 objects. Just changing “s” to “S” on one object won’t stop him - what will is the eventual realisation that he cannot win.

dieterdreist · 2023-06-09T08:19:08.000Z

| Mannivu Italy moderator
June 9 |

| - |

Since he’s going on with his nonsense battle and we don’t have any guideline on Uppercase or Lowercase of “Santi” I think it’s better to leave it with an uppercase (so maybe he will stop creating accounts just to change a letter).

I thought we did have an agreement to spell them uppercase

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-09T08:45:03.439Z

I’ve changed it to “S”.

Mannivu · 2023-06-09T08:56:56.871Z

dieterdreist:

I thought we did have an agreement to spell them uppercase

I believe you, but I couldn’t find any info in the Italian guidelines on the Wiki.

SekeRob · 2023-06-09T09:07:05.219Z

Just sampling a random road, now a tagless line top of and existing oneway road section called Via Trieste getting an on/off with the name of Via Madonna della Neve. Of course way on way is already a basic wrong on ground level, BUT, the wall sign at the corner coming right out of the tunnel does say Via Madonna della Neve (della in small on the chiseled name sign) which coincides with naming later sections of that (very narrow) road. It’s also where at the next split the wall sign says Via Trieste to the right.

image1367×500 219 KB

So, I know for sure, Via Trieste needs splitting at the fork and first section renamed to Via Madonna della Neve and the tagless, incorrect geometry way to be removed. Also the nameless first section from the fork to left is Via Madonna della Neve per wall sign and the direction of the oneway needs verifying as the imagery I have access to shows it the opposite way.

In short, a cazzatura to be blunt on just this one sample.

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-09T09:47:24.679Z

SekeRob:

Just sampling a random road

You’ve supplied a picture, but not linked to the problem in OSM. It looks from the picture that there’s a duplicate way. I’d suggest editing the area so that it is correct (deleting the unconnected road and ensuring that the connected one has the correct name for the correct length).

JOSM’s validator will likely identify further examples of this sort of thing.

SekeRob · 2023-06-09T10:11:50.103Z

Done and more in the Via Trieste/Cazzaniga/della Neve zone plus leaving a note for the oneway direction verification on della Neve

SomeoneElse · 2023-06-10T09:53:26.842Z

Just for info, the “deleted user” edits are continuing, and I’m continuing to update the list above.

SekeRob · 2023-07-25T08:54:53.798Z

Today discovered that our national sport is no longer called bocce but boules.

https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/sport/bocce

The halls we play this game in are called bocciodromo, is that now to be renamed to boulesdromo?

https://www.google.com/search?q=boccedromo&tbm=isch&source=univ&fir=2rHivI13Aoa2_M%252Cjw2Q7YEgr-gwKM%252C_%253BxmiplSQNYRUr5M%252CmmWp7wJeT2V_sM%252C_%253Bai94aWwHWccmhM%252CZttmgwFPfKl8vM%252C_%253B3FvhHsM_tJhL4M%252CipQXl9p4N9RxrM%252C_%253BPFYMBKV6BXaRXM%252C9p4Wd6phsfv6cM%252C_%253BNyCOpgJWbXHXoM%252CM0aOK7z30mzS9M%252C_%253BdZJuLBiLgI-CuM%252CnoqfgY_xDvWBDM%252C_%253BqL8mtD02XWnvVM%252CDta5pcfCVkwn_M%252C_%253BnLtCPi1-W0KpuM%252Cd7BsAiw2tSWDoM%252C_%253BNt7ZU3vMDXGYMM%252CLTmcWG4Oqjt0VM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kSKZBuvdbw-bqGl83F4Tw3uBUumSg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjthp7nvKmAAxUIg_0HHb-mA28QjJkEegQIFxAC&biw=1920&bih=925&dpr=1

The OSM wiki seems to have been written by one with french tongue and another did the mass edit. Just who in the Italian community agreed to this don’t know but found no talk page discussing this.

dieterdreist · 2023-07-25T09:21:06.000Z

one of the changesets that were used to retag is this:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/133480174

In this case sport=bocce has been replaced with sport=boules, boules=bocce
https://taghistory.raifer.tech/#***/boules/bocce

SekeRob · 2023-07-25T09:23:41.601Z

Yes,saw that of course, but seems to be a pretty unilateral action.

SomeoneElse · 2023-07-25T11:09:10.984Z

dieterdreist:

one of the changesets that were used to retag is this:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/133480174

and that user has a history of that sort of thing.

I’d suggest reverting the undiscussed mechanical edit back to the previous state, creating a forum thread here to discuss the name and telling the author of that mechanical edit to discuss it with everyone there.

I can see the logic - clearly the games are similar - but are they similar enough? Hopefully a discussion will answer that. Searching for boules and bocce here doesn’t find any data consumers for bocce, but perhaps there are some that haven’t advertised themselves to taginfo. There are boules data consumers; I doubt anyone has asked them whether they should expect bocce too.

PS: Moving these last few posts into that new thread would be a good idea.

SekeRob · 2023-07-25T11:37:31.709Z

Noticed the same happened to [

Pétanque

](Pétanque - Wikipedia).

Oh, thrown on the same Italian wiki page, bowls. Some stiff upper lip British citizens would suffer exploding heads if the sport would get sub labelled under boules, 16K use and held up so far as sport=bowls.

Of course by this vain we could as well throw raquetball (mentioned yesterday) and padel (or paddle as some name it) and saw the seeming annoyance in a US paper yesterday about pickleball under the sport=tennis + tennis=*. Think to have seen a JOSM preset where tennis and ping pong are mentioned in same. The ‘field’ is slightly smaller.

Edit: PM’d @geozeisig