Крим\Крым - name & al

Проект решения по name и admin level Крыму https://www.dropbox.com/s/zfqg3hef0o2x709/Crimea.txt

Должен заметить, это дадеко не единственный вариант, причем, имеющий ряд существенных недостатков:

  1. Пункты 1, 2, 3 противоречат принципу truth on the ground.
  2. Пункт 4 - явный вандавлизм.
  3. Пункт 5 просто чудовищен, не говоря о том, что в Крыму в настоящее время 3 государственных языка, так что, если следовать предложенной концепции, названия через тире должно быть не два, а три. Название должно информировать пользователя, а не удовлетворять чьи-то политические амбиции.

Обсуждение здесь (последнее обсуждение - 3 последние страницы):

Да, ссылку на этот вариант предложения как раз из той ветки скопировал. Спасибо.


Северный Кипр и Брюссель машут ручкой. :smiley:

exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis

Опять кто-то Крым отрезал

The Data Working Group has issued a statement on the editing conflicts in Crimea. This statement has also been minuted at http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea, but is reproduced below.

The Data Working Group is reviewing the situation in Crimea, in particular the large number of recent edits changing names. At this time we do not believe that a revert of all name changes aids in accurately representing the situation on the ground going forward, but we are looking into the edits in more detail.

In the DWG’s view there are three types of edits of concern here.

  1. Edits to the administrative boundary for the region.

In the short-term Crimea shall remain in both the Ukraine and Russia administrative relations, and be indicated as disputed. We recognize that being in two administrative relations is not a good long-term solution, although the region is likely to be indicated as disputed for some time.

The DWG is aware that data consumers may have problems with the database indicating the region is part of two countries.

  1. Edits adding tags indicating that objects are in one country or another, such as addr:country on objects which would not normally have any addr tags.

These edits should be avoided. They do not generally have the impact the user intended in the cases we have seen, as the tags added are not generally used by data consumers. addr:country should not be added to individual objects, or added from existing ones; instead the admin boundaries provide adequate indications of country status.

  1. Edits changing place names between languages

The DWG views these as the most serious portion of the dispute. The “on the ground” rule remains the method of determining the appropriate value for the name tag. The name tag should only changed in response to a change of most of the signage, a change in what the inhabitants of the place call it, or to fix a place name that was previously incorrect. These changes must not be made on the basis of government declarations or similar statements, but only direct observations of the on the ground situation.

Given the nature of the dispute, it would be best to support any name changes with a photo of changed signs or similar evidence, but this is not required.

  1. Other matters

Mechanical edits changing names or country information would require consensus from both the Ukrainian and Russian communities. It is unlikely that any such edit proposals will be able to achieve this.

Creating accounts for the purpose of controversial edits is strongly discouraged.

Changesets which change the language of names or attempt to edit which country something is in must use meaningful changeset comments, not an empty comment or the same comment copied for all changesets.

Edits ignoring the above may be reverted by the Data Working Group. If edits violating this are noticed and you cannot work it out with the user, please email data@osmfoundation.org about the issue, remembering to include sufficient information to identify the edits in question, relevant correspondence with the user, and any evidence.

Paul Norman
On behalf of the OpenStreetMap Data Working Group

Известно кто - зеленые человечки.

Месяц назад все знаки названий НП были на украинском.

  • У кого-то есть данные на сейчас?

Имеются ввиду знаки на границах городов? Вот же ж… Месяц назад был в северо-западном Крыму, хотел сфотографировать их, но передумал потом…
Многие (не помню точно, все или нет) знаки там содержат название на украинском большими буквами и ниже - маленькими на русском.

Да, знаки на границах населенных пунктов

Сейчас таблички на украинском + частично с дополнительно мелким англ\рус. Можно подождать, например, до сентября и 1) поправить в соотв. со знаками либо 2) попробовать использовать несколько языков [см. выше в ветке] двигаясь в декларируемом направлении многоязычия.

A number of edits in Crimea have ignored http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea.

There is a need to undo these edits, but I wanted to get feedback on the plan and identification of edits.

From a technical side, the tentative plan is

  • Download all the changes that need reverting and merge them for further processing, so consecutive changes to the same object appear as one changes

  • Undo changes to name, addr:street, or name:en, but excluding the addition of new tags.

  • Undo changes to addr:country, and don’t exclude the addition of new tags.

Because of the download and merge step, it's important to get all the edits in one go.

So far I have identified the following as users who have changesets that need reverting

  • Kostik

  • baltico

  • ll2820

Paul Norman
For the Data Working Group

I think it is impossible to review thousands of changesets to identify those that ignore DWG statement.
You would better use approach similar to approach developped by Frederik Ramm in 2012
He compared data from June 2012 and March 2012 and restored name and addr:street values from March 2012.

There much more users who have changesets that need reverting

  • Русская Реконкиста - renamed hundreds of settlements

  • SergeiChe - renamed dozens of settlements

  • Zverik - renamed districts and settlements (changeset 22663467)

  • ma5ter - modified border of Ukraine(changesets 24881785 and 24881985) – already reverted by changeset 25227974

Note, besides settlements of Crimea, **Kostik** also renames settlements in another regions of Ukraine. See [changeset 25071161](http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/25071161) with general comment "address error fixed"

FYI. edward17 and oleg assert that settlement road signs contained ukrainian names in July and August. See their comments above.

We have better tools for complex multi-changeset reverts since then. Doing it that way would revert name values which were changed following the criteria in http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea.

They claim to have based their changes on first-hand knowledge or reports from people they know. If you have evidence otherwise from after their changes, please send it to data@osmfoundation.org.

Border changes wouldn’t be covered by what I’m reverting, so I’m not too worried about those. Also, it’s much easier to manually fix the border than to do it as part of a complex revert.

Although this would be continuing a pattern, I’m not going handle it in this revert, which will already be complex enough.

Actually they violate the following rule:

The only information about road signs was written in this thread by edward17 and oleg. I don’t have my own information.
BTW, did Русская Реконкиста provide any proof about his “on-the-ground” changes?

Yes, I confirm that. Currently all settlement name signs are in Ukrainian.

From my point of view it would be great to use several languages in the tag name. Several languages will ensure respect for local groups: users and map editors. We can use actual values of signs before the community reaches the common view on (multi)languages.

В российском Крыму началась замена дорожных указателей. Рабочие, стартовали с феодосийской трассы, где указатель на украинском языке «Трудове - Урожайне» заменили на русскоязычную версию «Трудовое - Урожайное».