Mapping with WiFi SSIDs as a data source?

As WiFi networks can be easily be collected without any user interaction, would OSM contributors be interested in using them as a data source? If the community was to collect this data at scale, WiFi networks could potentially be an easy way for contributors to source up-to-date “ground-truth” information.

While they shouldn’t be used to mass-import POIs, they could definitely be used for confirming whether businesses still exist, and even identifying store locations that haven’t yet been added to OSM.

they could definitely be used for confirming whether businesses still exist

So the assumption is that if WiFI SSID is online then business still exits? If not it should be confirmed?
I suppose it works in most cases

Is your goal to collect SSIDs in OSM? Or use third-party source to confirm already existing data?

Related: Mapping Wifi/Bluetooth SSIDs and Cell Towers for GeoLocation

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Some people already map the ssid of businesses with wifi.

Other than that I don’t know how this is a useful for ground truthing.,

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If you’re within wi-fi range of a business, wouldn’t you be able to see whether it actually still exists or not?

The other issues are that wi-fi names (especially for e.g. pubs) don’t always match the business name, and spoofing in some places is pretty common. I guess that spoofed wi-fi names will likely go away with the business, but they’re not in any way related to it.

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Perhaps a source such as WiGLE or beaconDB was also meant?

This would apply to the collection without user interaction, because once the app is started, the collection runs in the background.

The opinion in favour of a mass import would also fit here, as WiFi hotspots are sometimes mapped with internet_access=wlan and ‘could’ be imported from one of the above websites.

Yes, I mean that this data is already being collected for beaconDB, and could also be used for mapping in OSM. (I intentionally didn’t mention it in the post, but I am the BeaconDB dev)

As this data can be collected passively, it’s much easier for more people to automatically collect information that could be used to help confirm whether it still exists, simply by driving past it. No extra effort or hardware needed - just by taking routes you already travel regularly and using your phone you most likely already have.

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So what you’re really asking is: Would OpenStreetMappers like to volunteer to be surveilled on the off chance that it might result in confirming SSIDs on their commute?

And as well as confirming a business exists, although the number that provide customer WiFi is generally restricted to a few categories of businesses.

You will also be collecting a much larger number of private WiFi ssids which really shouldn’t be added to OSM.

Personally I don’t really see the point of adding WiFi SSIDs to OSM. I can see that some people map them but it’s not something that motivates me. But I am motivated to add which businesses have free customer WiFi (useful whenever you travel somewhere data is expensive) and I am also motivated to keep POI data up to date.

So I can see how a mobile app could be useful for OSM that

  • Keeps track of nearby WiFi SSIDs in the background
  • Intelligently matches SSIDs to businesses mapped in OSM (without directly uploading those SSIDs to OSM), based on which SSIDs are in the vicinity every time I walk past a business, the match between the name of the business and the SSID, the OSM tags of the business (some are more likely to have free WiFi than others), etc.
  • The app could suggest likely SSID matches for me to manually review and add to OSM (“We have noticed that cafe XYZ seems to have WiFi, can you confirm this? Is available to the public, only to customers, or private?”) Of course this often means actually going inside and ordering something - some businesses have WiFi only for staff.
  • When an SSID associated with a business suddenly disappears, the app could ask me (e.g. in a push notification) if the business has closed, or if they no longer have free WiFi. If I confirm it’s closed or changed, it could let me enter what’s there now (vacant? new shop?) and upload that to OSM.
  • Maybe it’s even possible to identify new SSIDs that seem to be associated with a business, and thereby identify previously unmapped businesses. But I am not sure how you would distinguish those from private SSIDs

If the SSID-business matching algorithm works well and such an app is used at scale by OSMers, this could help us dramatically increase the number of businesses whose free customer WiFi has been mapped, and also help with keeping POIs up to date. (Veteran POI mappers are always on the lookout for newly closed businesses but not everyone watches out for that on their commute)

If the same app also helps another FOSS project, great. (Though I admit I don’t know much about wireless geolocation and the potential privacy issues)

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Business WiFi SSID’s are typically standardized across many/all locations of a particular business franchise (e.g. all Taco Bell locations, etc). But the problem with that is, SSIDs are not licensed or regulated. I could easily change my home SSID (which happens to have an exterior antenna) to mimic any known, and widely deployed, business SSID, and I doubt the business would know or could do anything about it.

Somewhere way back in my memory, there was some use of SSIDs with known geolocations, as an assist to establishing an initial GPS fix. That may no longer be a thing tho.

Google Maps absolutely used to do this (at least where there was no cellular signal). No idea if it still does, but I’ve regularly been located in King’s Cross or similar when on a train with no other coverage other than the train wifi.

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