Mapping of tunnel and entrance portals

General talk Tagging general discussion
1

I was about to map this impressive historic tunnel portal

but did not find any documented tag. Checking taginfo I found

building=portal  36
building=tunnel_portal  1

man_made=portal 108
man_made=tunnel_portal 9

portal=tunnel 2
portal=historic 4

historic=tunnel_entrance 1

As these portals are massive constructions we should have some documented tagging for them imo. My personal preference would be

man_made=portal
portal:type=tunnel
portal:architecture=* (if known)

At the same time it should probably be considered if and how to tag portals related to building entrances like this one for instance:

The german wiki page for entrance=* says that for such entrance portals there is discussion to use

portal=yes or

man_made=portal
portal:type=*
portal:architecture=*
portal:construction=*

Anyhow so far there is no documented tag for these. I found

portal=entrance 1
portal:type=entrance 2

A structured approach could be

man_made=portal
portal:type=entrance
portal:architecture=* (if known)

If man_made=portal would result in conflict with entrance=* alternatively portal=yes could be added to the entrance node.

I am looking forward to your comments.

Not to forget: the main usage of the value “portal” is related to the key “power”:

power=portal 232 680
power=catenary_portal 484
man_made=catenary_portal 17

2 Likes
2

Apparently nobody likes my tunnel portal … :cry:

That’s a pity because I would like to document the tag man_made=portal in the wiki so that other users know it’s existing and don’t need to repeat the research I have made alredy.

3
  • man_made=portal : Agree with this feature
  • portal:type= : Not more structured. Simply portal= will do at first. Can be overloaded as entrance= is for different types.
    • =entrance : Doesn’t explain what it is exactly. Better =building
4

A tunnel portal feels different to a building entrance. The former is a dedicated structure, the latter basically a fancy door.

I guess my question is whether you want to map the portal as a node (refining https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:entrance) or as it’s own structure (man_made=portal).
From your description, I think the latter, in which case we don’t have to consider building entrances.

5

I thought about that as well. Both portal=* and portal:type=* have very few use cases so far. I thought portal:type=* is more precise, but with portal=* I’m fine as well.

Sure. My thought was to add man_made=portal to an existing entrance node, in case portal fits the design of the entrance. Just am nor sure how to do this best. Probably

man_made=portal
portal=building (as proposed by @Kovoschiz)
portal:architecture=* (if known)
entrance=yes

This would make it easy to add the portal to an existing entrance without removing the existing tag.

6

what about man_made=tunnel_portal ? Which other portal types would you see for a more generic portal=* tag?

3 Likes
7

Please note:

8

I do like it - and it’s very impressive too. Most tunnel portals that I do remember are much simpler like this one

Second one to yours that I do know is Kaiser-Wilhelm-Tunnel Cochem

looks good.

1 Like
9

It’s a good idea to have tagging for tunnel portals. Here’s a particularly elaborate example which has its own wikidata entry.

This is currently tagged as an archeological site, resulting in this weird rendering:
image

I’m not convinced by entrance=yes, since this duplicates the meaning of portal. We don’t want people adding entrance=yes to any tunnel entrance.

I’m also not convinced by portal=building as the vast majority of tunnel portals are not buildings in the normal sense of something that has a roof.

man_made=tunnel_portal has the advantage of being clear and specific. Otherwise there is an overlap with man_made=adit.

3 Likes
10

Thanks for your post. I think you misunderstood my proposal. The idea is to use

man_made=portal

both for tunnel portals and for building entrances designed as a portal. There are several sample pics for such architectural portals on wikipedia

Portal (architecture) - Wikipedia

Proposed tagging for tunnel portal:

man_made=portal
portal:type=tunnel or just portal=tunnel
portal:architecture=*

Proposed tagging for a building (entrance) portal:

man_made=portal
portal:type=building or portal=building
portal:architecture=* (if known)
entrance=yes

Again I do not see an overlap with man_made=adit as portal is used for an architecturally designed tunnel entrance whereas adit is used for a simple opening, sometimes in the bare rock, sometimes reinforces with some concrete or simple brickwork.

11

Sorry, I had misunderstood. Agree with all this, particularly the point that it is intended for “interesting” portals rather than generic tunnel entrances.

12

What about using it for (officially/signposted) named tunnel portals? No other feature for the name= RAIL TUNNEL IN CORNWALL NAMED IN TRIBUTE OF SPERRITT

13

To my knowledge all major Tunnels do have a name which normally is signed in one way or the other at both sides. On the other hand small tunnels of minor importance do not have such portals. So I think portal=tunnel would go hand in hand with name=* anyhow.

14

To my knowledge all major Tunnels do have a name which normally is signed in one way or the other at both sides. On the other hand small tunnels of minor importance do not have such portals.

isn’t portal in this context just the word for the opening where the tunnel ends? I would expect every tunnel to have a portal, even if they aren’t as articulated as the one in your example

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15

Here the portal name would surely be “West Portal” or “West Portal Upside”, with the tunnel way tagged with tunnel:name=Sperritt Tunnel?

Usually tunnel portals are at most “named” with a geographic descriptor to distinguish the two ends, e.g. “West Portal” etc. These are quite close to descriptions rather than “proper nouns”. Renders may well decide not to show name given their description-like quality.

16

@dieterdreist

It depends on the interpretation of the term portal. Generally ist means simply an entrance or entry point and is used in various context.

In tunnel construction portal describes the structure around the opening. Historic ones often show an extremely elaborate design whereas modern ones normally have a functional concrete portal. In any case these portals are physical objects and we should have an option to map it properly.

Related to buildings portal it is commonly used for entrances with an elaborate design and I am sure you are aware of that as someone with deep interest in architecture. I’d say a separate tag for such entrance portals is just an optional addition to the established entrance-tag. No obligation for anyone to make use of it, but if someone likes to point out that an entrance has such elaborate design it does no harm to tag it as such.

17

You are right, tunnel portals usually are distinguished by adding the orientation to the name, sometimes even written on the signboard. It surely makes sense to add such name to the portal. I would go for portal names like

name=Sperrit Tunnel West

and I believe this would be accepted as a proper name by most renderers.

Additionally the tunnel name can be tagged to the tunnels way anyhow.

18

I would go for portal names like

name=Sperrit Tunnel West

and I believe this would be accepted as a proper name by most renderers.

is it a portal name? To me it looks as if the tunnel itself is called Sperrit Tunnel, supposedly the are 2 tunnel tubes, and this is the Western one. From this name it seems the portal has no name.

1 Like
19

As mentioned originally, it should be name= =West / =West Portal (+ tunnel:name=Sperritt Tunnel )
It’s similar to entrance= + name= (which can be generic-like, yet are proper names for them)

20

“West portal” is not a name, but just a description. Portals are named after the tunnel and referred to as “West Portal Sperrit Tunnel” or “Sperrit Tunnel West Portal”.

1 Like