Inconsistent visibility across zoom levels

I made some changes 2-3 days ago (added some small streams near where I live), and now I see that they are not visible at levels 13, 16 and 17, but they are visible at levels 14, 15, and 18. Is there a reason for this? Thanks.

Well, on default map current changes are rendered for z13+, anything up to z12 is rendered 1-2 times a month:

It’s hard for me to say why there are differences in rendering across these zoom levels.

Cacheing, somewhere. Maybe. Have you tried a forced-refresh? Control-F5 does this on many browsers.

There’s an issue with one of the rendering databases.

There were some problems with the replication to the rendering database. Everything took longer than normal.
Not all zoom levels are rendered at the same time. Just be patient.

[Caution: pent-up frustration being released]

Why is this not considered a problem, and fixed?
Why does /dirty refuse to work on z11 and z12?
Why (out of curiosity) do z11 and z12 live in their own world?
Why did z9 and z10 respond to my /dirty instantly a few days ago (I had to pick myself up off the floor, I was so surprised)? I was so productive that day: could see where I’d been, and where to go next.
Why did z9 and z10 stop responding to /dirty the next day, and not work since? (Ah lemme guess, that issue mentioned above.)

Some kinds of mapping show up quite well at z12 and below! (Well, weeks later, they do.)

I don’t know, you should ask OSMF server admins about these things (when you are ready to talk, not just flush the frustration, of course).

Yeah, OSM is a maze of communication channels, and I’m still finding my way around.

I let loose here on the hope someone with oomph might see it, and say with authority, “let’s speed up low-zoom rendering”.

And oh, if I could find the secret room where server admins discuss their nitty-gritty, I’d be a wide-eyed fly on the wall. (I understand their language.)

Thanks for listening. :slight_smile:

The only ones that can make it happen are OSMF server admins, I would ask here:

I imagine it happens because people haven’t donated enough money to allow it to happen.

Remember the maps on those sites are there to assist mappers; they are not intended for end user, and mappers generally only need the high zoom levels; they shouldn’t be trying to tweak their mapping to produce a particular result at any zoom level.

You will find that even high zoom levels take a long time to update on the other renderings on the main site.

A better question is “Why aren’t you reading the answers posted here in this thread?”

Escada already answered saying there was a temporary hiccup with replication between databases, meaning some rendering servers did not receive the latest data and would thus not render it:

I did read that, thanks, of course. As I acknowledged, that would account for some aspects of the lag.

Much of my mapping is wide-scale in nature: landuse, roads and their classifications, waterways. If you zoom out, you can tell at a glance (assuming it’s rendered) whether you’ve missed, say, any misclassified roads at z10. Tertiary-vs-unclassified stands out beautifully at z10. Ditto river-vs-stream at some lower zoom level.

In some ways, mapping the hinterlands (Canada) is still largely a low-zoom thing. Lots of import repair, lots of filling-in-the-white. I have to wonder if OSM is optimized for more completely-mapped areas like Europe, where improvements happen largely at high zooms.

It would really be nice if /dirty worked at z11 or z12. Even after a delay, I can wait. (On rare occasions I do get a /dirty success on z10, so that’s a little victory.) But at z11/z12, it’s weeks you’ll be waiting, /dirty or not. It’s been this way for as long as I can remember.

From observation, I suspect there may be a bug in dirty handling. But it’s clean, says /status. No it isn’t.

This should change fast!

  1. PC/Server are more powerful than in the starting days
  2. If the map is only a byproduct, than change name, dont act like a map and as soon as some challenges come up, tell people its a database.
  3. Get some funding going, wikipedia can do it, so whats the wait?

The map is the database, not the 2D bitmap images. That’s the same for modern professional maps (probably for several decades)>

And anything that makes it easier to visualize the state of the database is a good thing.


I know, so the map is for the enduser, as you call it. Maybe i understood you wrong because of the words “remember…assists mapper…not intended for enduser”

Anyhow, update cycle of tiles should and can be faster. period. I wait now for several days that my changes (larger area of landuse) is completely visible in different zoom levels. At the moment it is a guessing game where i have already mapped (i started to take streets, forest etc as reminder until where i have mapped) but still some times it happens that i download data in osm i have already mapped, only because i couldnt see it on the map…not so cool we are in 21th century

As was posted above, there was (and possibly still is) an issue with a rendering database. No matter how powerful your servers are, sometimes there are issues.

If you would like to donate some money to help pay for more powerful servers and other resources for this volunteer project, you can do so here. You can also set up your own server if you aren’t satisfied with the map renderings that are already available to you for free.

The issue-with-the-rendering-database is a temporary issue, I get that.

z11 and z12 updating once a month and no more (and without recourse to /dirty) is treated as a fact of life, and even documented in a wiki somewhere.

Why must that be a fact of life? It’s a support tool for mappers. We’re not expecting this to be an end-user map, like it seems some think we are.

I’d be happy with one clear view into the current state of the database. Right now there’s only the zoomed-far-in view, somewhat awkward when doing landuse, etc. The previous poster (emga) summed up the reasoning well, and I agree.

What is interesting for me - why are you still asking here and not the people who decided that and who have the power to change that decision?

Whatever you will ask and whatever we will answer here, on the forum, will not change that fact. It’s nothing “bad” or “forbidden” to complain here, we can happily talk about it to our harts content, but it’s just useless.

Simple: I don’t know how to reach those people, and more importantly, I don’t know how to influence them. I can only hope they’d drop into a thread on the top level of the forum. Am I dreaming?

As I said, OSM is a maze of communication channels (even 1980’s email lists - lordy!), and I’d rather spend the time mapping than navigating the maze on a crusade to find the elusive minotaur.

I hope that OSM-in-trouble blog post shook things up a bit. Hard to tell from here.