If by “you” you mean me, I do not think would have to. I guess I have to reword my previous statement: This picture shows hands for comfort.
The SAC in its latest revision completely removed the prose, there is now T1…T6 only. Reposting a fine article Darum wurde die SAC-Wanderskala nach 20 Jahren überarbeitet - The sliding image comparison very much on top shows that. If openstreetmap went that way, I’d feel reminded on track grading, grade1…grade5. Did anybody say hikr.org.
The comparison of revisions also highlights, that competing scales no longer mapped 1:1 by showing a blurred mapping SAC <> SWW.
The media article also has nice new sample pictures for their grades, about half way down the editorial content. What they call hiking in OSM now strolling? Deeplink – No, because it is single file The T3 picture now shows a way, where in OSM it shows just talus. BTW, the photographer of both pictures the same person.
I think the wiki of sac_scale can be further improved by sharing our tagging experience, but that’s better done is a separate thread.
On the subject of this thread, as stated above I would like to avoid mentioning incline/steep/level, etc. I would also like to avoid mentioning anything about the width of the way because we also already have a tag for that, i.e. revert the addition of “, usually walked single file” to sac_scale=hiking.
This is integral to the meaning of strolling, as it allows you to have a nice walk with someone. And it really is only difference between strolling and hiking.
Well, “continuous climb” or whatever it was was removed from “mountain_hiking”. I guess on this one I kind of agree, though again for strolling I again think it is a part of the definition that it is not too steep. From hiking up, the steepness can really be anything.
I do not see a use for incline on trails when we have contour lines by the way.
@rhhs would you agree with your picture tobe uploaded to he wiki?
Well, that was my intention when I drafted the proposal. I am talking about “strolling” in OSM terms, not plain English terms.
I think there might be a misunderstanding here (well, I omitted indeterminate article in that sentence): I meant to say the width separates strolling from all the other values. That applies only to the extent that if something is narrow, it is not strolling. The implication in the otehr direction (“it is wide, so it is strolling”) does not hold. The “only” applied to this. I was not trying to say that width is the only difference between strolling and hiking, which is I think what you understood.
I think the main difference is the smoothness of the way: for strolling, there is nothing to worry about (no tree roots, stones, etc that you could trip over or twist your ankle) so you don’t need to pay attention to the surface and can have a nice chat about the meaning of life with your friends while walking. But those friends could also walk in front or behind you, if the path is too narrow to walk side by side. For hiking, there are obstacles like roots and stones that need some attention, but they are easily avoided by stepping over them or walking around them (there’s plenty of smooth surface around them). For mountain_hiking, there is hardly a flat surface available and you need to decide for almost every step where to put your foot (which slows you down considerably). But now I’m going off-topic…
I also find it hard to imagine that a steep but smooth trail could be called “strolling” in plain English, but we could call it that in OSM terms. Such trails will also be rare unless frequently maintained, because they will often quickly erode to hiking or worse.
once it is concluded, I would add it to the wiki. Would you please in the meantime upload the picture to the wiki and posted a link to the file here? Wiki is thorough with licence and you are the license holder.
One of my very early edits to OSM was adding backcountry tags to the informal campsites marked along Lycian way.
We could, but should we? Such steepness would preclude:
I would also argue that certain width is part of the easyness - pert of the definition of strolling is navigability with crutches, so something a bit wider is really appropriate, I think.
I remember a chat about what happened some day; I said: I went for a walk (is that stroll?) She asked: How long were you out; I said: for six hours or so. She said: Then you were not out for a walk (stroll?), you were out for a hike.
@supsup There is one picture in polling for a few days now, the one by @_MisterY , can the poll get closed and results of it posted to “more pictures” section in the Wiki documentation? The picture is there already.
I suggest this for a poll: Strolling/Hiking/Mountain Hiking:
Roots are a recent addition to T1. Obviously “path well cleared” does not include them as necessary of clearing. I personally do not see how walking there is less technically challenging as in this picture that a member of the SAC task force posted for their scale, [deeplink].
Not sure which one you refer to, one I put to the wiki yesterday or so.
Very often with these discussions, there is a desire to find one property to base a classification on. Nor language nor real world works like that. OSM is of course an abstraction but some complexity must remain.
That is a very nice hiking example, I think that does not even need polling, is there anybody who does not think that is hiking?
As for the deeplink image, I was as perplexed as you, I would never think mountain_hiking. The only thing it has common with sac_scale=mountain_hiking is that it is on top of a mountain, which is irrelevant. Though looking at the picture now with more focus, I can see that there might be some slight exposure (and maybe a lot more off-picture). Maybe it feels different when you have been there pictures can be misleading. But I do agree it is not a good illustrative picture.
Well, it is by the same photographer that sponsored the photos that the openstreemap Wiki documentation provides and it is definitely meant to show mountain hiking. And when i subtract the photo made in the mountains, what remains?
You missed a few (or they were added later); I also did quite few edits like that recently (and moved many wild camping site descriptions from name=* to description=*).
Depends on your level of fitness… You could have the chat on the way down?
We met someone on the Lycian Way doing it on crutches (he had a lower leg amputation)…
The T3 picture now shows a way, where in OSM it shows just talus. BTW, the photographer of both pictures the same person.
You could have the chat on the way down?