Det er eit Noregs-forma hol i nettverket av europavegar. Elles i verdsdelen lagar dei relasjonar tagga route=road + network=e-road
Som eg forstår det vart dei sletta for nokre år sida, di dei var av dårleg forfatning.
Er det kanskje på tide å ta ein titt på saken på nytt? (Til dømes har OSM-Americana vist interesse for å visa grøne vegskjold).
Det norske vegnettet er no ei ein vesentleg betre stand enn før.
Jeg synes absolutt ikke slike relasjoner skal brukes i Norge. De er unødvendige fordi vi her i landet konsekvent har merket europaveiene med ref=Exxx. Slike relasjoner gjør det vanskeligere å redigere veier og de har vist seg å stadig få feil/være ukomplette.
Er ening i poengene til @NKA, men jeg mener likevel at det kan finnes grunn til å reintrodusere relasjonene igjen.
Dette koker ned til en kost-nytte-vurdering. Hva veier tyngst?
Om det i praksis bare er OSM-Americana som bruker denne type relasjoner, så heller jeg nok mer mot å ikke ønske relasjonene tilbake. Om det finnes litt flere eksempler på at relasjonene brukes til noe nevenyttig, så er jeg tilbøyelig til å ønske dem tilbake. Om mange bruker disse relasjonene, og Norge er i særstilling med å ikke ha dem, så tror jeg det er lettere å reintrodusere dem enn å lobbyere for at data consumers skal respektere at vi bruker ref=Exxx i stedet.
OSM Americana is a style of the OpenMapTiles schema, which uses route relations in all places with the exception of special-case code for UK and Ireland national routes. In order for Americana to display shields, someone would either have to map route relations in Norway or else create special code in OpenMapTiles to handle Norway differently.
OSM Americana viser ikke veimerker (shields) for de fleste veier i Norge (og mange andre land) i det hele tatt, heller ikke for riksveier/fylkesveier. Dette er helt klart noe som må løses i kartet, ikke i OSM gjennom store og unødvendige relasjoner. Kartene kan med letthet vise et veimerke der ref=* starter med "E ". Alle de andre kartene jeg har sett får til dette.
Neighboring countries seem to have a different perspective on this. Norway’s numbered route network doesn’t appear to be significantly different from that of Sweden or Finland, and route relations are complete in those countries. If most other countries recognize that this is just a tagging issue, what makes Norway different?
OpenMapTiles supports way-based refs in certain limited circumstances, like Ireland and the UK, where shield appearance depends on the classification of the road (i.e. the value of highway=*). The unique situation there requires special casing in OpenMapTiles - relations would be cumbersome and unnecessary. But even in Ireland and the UK, route relations are present and complete for E-roads.
For your information, shield appearance in Norway also depends on road classification (value of highway=*):
highway=trunk and highway=motorway have green shields.highway=primary have white shields.And that is it. Not very complicated and no need for relations. It is by the way different from Sweden and Finland.
Are there any numbered routes in Norway that change shield appearance when they change classification? For example, the A1 Road in the UK has blue, green or white shields based on how each segment is classified. Are Norwegian routes segmented in the same way?
No, only the two rules above apply.
Then it sounds like the special case situation doesn’t apply, and relations would be a good fit for Norwegian roads.
If you have a different perspective on the Norwegian road network, then feel free to open a pull request in OpenMapTiles to support way-based refs for Norwegian roads. Otherwise, Norway will continue to be missing route shields on OMT vector styles.
Missing shields seem like a bummer. We should probably decide on either making a pull request or reinstating the relations. I’m OK with either, really.
Det er ikke slik at veinummeret mangler for kart basert på OpenMapTiles, de bare mangler fine skjold slik som i USA - men slikt har vi jo ikke i Norge uansett.
Eksempel: Maps | MapTiler
The shields are missing from the OSM Americana style, so not sure what makes that different from regular OpenMapTiles: OpenStreetMap Americana
(aside, I fixed the wikidata entries for Jotunheimen + Fredrikstad so those names will be fixed on the map)
The explanation for this is complex, but I’ll point out the most fundamental problem for shield renderers:
There is no obvious way to tell the difference between identical route number ref schemes between different countries. In order to draw different shields in different countries, we need a way to differentiate them.
For example:
ref=A 1)ref=A1)ref=A 1)This type of problem repeats itself for many many route networks which have a common numbering scheme and prefix between countries. Many countries use “A” as a common prefix for their national level highway system.
This is not a problem for renderers that render from ref tags alone, because all of their route indicators are drawn identically:
However, in the real world, the Italian and French and Luxembourgian A1 routes look like this:
We are able to do that in Americana:
We are able to do this because each route relation contains additional information that allows us to tell the difference between different A1 routes:
network=IT:A-road + ref=A1network=FR:A-road + ref=A 1network=LU:A-road + ref=A1In case it’s not clear why we can’t just use the refs from ways and assign them a shield design based on the country they’re inside (in other words, generalize the UK/Ireland special case): there are several instances where routes belonging to one administrative area pass through foreign territory. If we simply divide up the world’s roads and assign them shields based on where they’re physically located, there would be several edge cases where the wrong shields appear.
In the examples below (click for location), Ukrainian route M-15 stays Ukrainian even when it cuts through a corner of Moldova, and route N260 of the Netherlands maintains its designation even within the Belgian enclaves of Baarle-Hertog. While these situations are rare, there is nothing theoretically stopping any two countries with a land border from having this situation. Norway may not currently have any roads passing through foreign countries, and probably doesn’t plan on having any. But unless Norway adopts a route numbering system with the same quirks as Ireland and the UK (and simultaneously jettisons itself from the continent, removing its land borders in the process), it is unlikely that way-based refs in Norway will receive the same level of software support as relation-based refs.
No problem, all the other renderers display refs in Norway, so there are many other alternatives besides OSM Americana.
Would there be any issues for the rest of us if someone volunteered and took the time to add the relations back?
I will not do that myself, as I only use the iD editor 
Based on this discussion, I’d be OK with it at least. I think @clay_c and @ZeLonewolf make a strong case for why they’re useful, and I don’t see any strong counter arguments presented.
Maybe you should make a poll just to get some concrete results out of this.
Since the major road imports are done, I have nothing specific against adding the relations again. Presumably, someone will maintain them.
Vi har nylig bestemt at vi ikke skal ha slike relasjoner i Norge. Det var gode grunner til å fjerne dem, og det er et svært dårlig argument at én av mange renderers gjerne vil ha dem. Dette blir bare «tagging for one renderer». Det er ikke vårt problem at de har valgt å ikke bruke ref-taggen.