Hi there
Does it make sense in the Netherlands to distinguish between **fietsstrook ** and fietsstrook met onderbroken streep in the tagging?
Or in other words, do cycle lanes with dashed lines only occur in small sections at for example intersections etc. to allow for motor vehicle traffic to pass through, or also on longer sections or whole roads?
Hi wnoā¦
Not for the way in tagging cycleway=laneā¦ interrupted or not interrupted.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:Cycleway
It is possible to cross the not interrupted line. It is only not allowedā¦
If there is difference in level and a motorcar canāt enter the āstrookā use cycleway=track
Sorry, I did not quite understand your reply. Can you show me examples of fietsstrook met onderbroken streep?
I mean exclusively fietsstrook, not fietspad, exclusively those that are tagged on the street itself via cyclewy:right=lane and so on.
That is what I meanā¦ The red colored strip (fietsstrook ) connected with the highway (so not seperated from the highway) Most of the time there is an interrupted line. Motorcars may cross that line but donāt park the car.
On the surface there must be a bicycle on the road. (For the law it is a cycleway)
Sometimes the line is not interrupted ā¦ It is not allowed to cross the line.
The tagging cycleway:right=lane is the same.
If there is no bicycle in the pavement we tag shared_lane.
I 'm typing on my mobileā¦ maybe some other member can show a picture?
Edit
https://images.app.goo.gl/pqx7rz93knUmFsD97
Editā¦ cars are crossing the interrupted line. It s allowed.
Edit3 Many mainstreets in the Netherlands have cycleway=laneā¦ and that for many km sā¦ not intersection only.
Ah ok, that image is from the Netherlands? Ok, then everything is clear. Then, it makes sense to distinguish fietsstrook and fietsstrook met onderbroken streep because the quality of the fietsstrook is better if it is not with an onderbroken streep.
StreetComplete tags:
fietsstrook: cycleway=lane + cycleway:lane=exclusive
fietsstrook (met onderbroken streep): cycleway=lane + cycleway:lane=advisory
fietssuggestiestrook: cycleway=shared_lane + cycleway:lane=advisory
and I recommend others to do the same (add the cycleway:lane subtag) because this is useful information
Cycleway=shared_lane has no status. We call that fietssuggestiestrook. Itās painted on the pavement to suggest the road is smaller and the cars will slow down . There is no bicycle printed on the pavement. So the idea is the bicycle traffic will slow down the other traffic. Itās even dangereous for cyclists
Edit If there is a traffic island in the middle ā¦the cycleway lane often stopsā¦ the same idea. The cyclist will slow down the the traffic.
I sympathize with the idea to differentiate between solid and dashed lines on fietsstroken because itās a difference that is actually on the ground. Although, in my subjective experience as a cyclist, that line makes no difference to me. I donāt feel that solid-line stroken are any higher āqualityā than their dashed-line counterparts. Not in this country.
Fietssuggestiestroken are inferior (and Iāve corrected a fair many cycleway=lane to shared_lane).
How would we make the difference between solid line and dashed line? AFAIK that is not something the NL community has considered (I may be wrong on this). Cycleway:lane=* is certainly not in widespread use: 34 occurrences in NL according to taginfo. I donāt think StreetComplete should push its use in NL.
Whatās more: cycleway:lane=advisory is wrong on fietsstroken (nothing advisory about them, theyāre mandatory, solid or dashed) and redundant on fietssuggestiestroken (which are advisory by definition). IMHO, cycleway:lane=advisory makes no sense under Dutch law, it should not be used here.
How would we make the difference between solid and dashed, then? cycleway:lane=exclusive/mandatory? Should we bother?
The cycleway lane tagging is described in this wiki article https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cycleway:lane , including the special cases for (so far) Belgium and Netherlands. StreetComplete tags cycleway:left:lane, cycleway:right:lane and cycleway:both:lane, not cycleway:lane and since 2018.
The dashed cycle lane may not be advisory in the Netherlands, but that is just the name of the category. Each country will have slightly different rules that apply to these categories.
lines for lanes
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:change
depends on how many lanes there are
use | | | |
dashed
change:cycleway:lanes:forward=yes or is it cycleway:change:lanes:forward=yes
change:cycleway:lanes:backward=yes
solid
change:cycleway:lanes:forward=no
change:cycleway:lanes:backward=no
change:cycleway:lanes:forward=not_left
change:cycleway:lanes:backward=not_left
There is the car point of view and the bicycle point of view.
Solid, the car should get a message not to drive on that side/lane
And there are lines for overtaking
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:overtaking
Ik zie dat er in Nederland nu een aantal wegen met cycleway:lane=advisory voor een fietssuggestiestrook zijn getagged; maar dit is niet de conventie, toch?
Alleen omdat StreetComplete dit zo wilt implementeren, maakt het nog geen juist gebruik imho. Eens?
Groet,
Otto
Note that if there is NO cycling symbol on that red coloured strip motorcars MAY park on that strip, unless forbidden by other signs (e.g. āno parkingā). Only a red strip with interrupted line is a bicycle suggestion strip.
I thought that in case of cycleway=shared_lane there is no strip (whatever type and lining at all), bicycles share the lane with all other traffic, so a superfluous, default, tag.
I just updated NL:Cycleway adding pictures for cycleway=lane and cycleway=shared_lane, the difference is only if there is a cyclist sign or not.
cycleway=lane
cycleway-shared_lane
As cyclist this difference between cycleway=lane and a shared_lane does not matter too much, what counts but is almost never tagged funny enough, is the width.
From wikipedia:
Het āASVV2012ā van het CROW adviseert een breedte van 2,00 meter en een minimumbreedte van 1,50 meter aan te houden voor een fietsstrook.