Concern about edits by JTE Dimandix

I scrapped together what little strength I have to revert a changeset that contained roads that neither existed, nor be under construction. The user is likely different from G626, hence the new thread.

I told the user in this reverted changeset:

Please, stop adding roads that do not exist: we cannot accept roads where construction has not even started yet. If you continue to add non-existent roads, we may have to consider moderator action, that is, if anyone really pays attention to the damage that fantasy roads can cause to our reputation.

In the meantime, the user replied with an insane wall of text:

Good Evening

Recently you seem to have reverted some edits I made in A90 that were “speculative”

In fact these sections aren’t “specualative”, instead they are actual considerations by the Greek ministry of Transport, as well as the Organization of Development of Crete among other official organizations. I have sources to confirm:

For Chania, Rethymno and Heraklion bypasses:απ-82-17-Αναπομπή-ΜΠΕ-Παράκαμψη-Χανίων-Ρεθύμνου-Ηρακλείου-ΒΟΑΚ.pdf General study on Chania - Heraklion (excluding bypasses):*9_2021*Τotal_compressed.pdf There are diagrams available in the above links, but in case you don’t speak Greek, I can help you with what is due to be changed: 1. The existing form of the interchange to Chania and Omalos in Vamvakopoulo will be kept, with the creation of acceleration-deceleration lanes on the highway, waiting lanes for left turns and traffic lines on Kazantzaki Avenue and new road signs and markings. With the proposed projects, the deceleration-acceleration lanes on the North Cretan Highway are reformed, with a provision of 250m lane length and 60m taper length. The intersection is located within a densely built-up area, so a sidewalk will likely be provided on both sides of Kazantzaki Street. Bus stops, if required, can be placed. 2. On the interchange to Mournies, the branch towards the settlement of Mournies will be deviated, so that it intersects vertically with the main road to Chania and the Hospital. Small displacement of the junction of the local road east of the Chania - Hospital road will also be made, so that the position coincides with the junction of the Chania - Hospital road and the branch towards Mournies settlement. At the formed four-way junction, traffic should be regulated by traffic light. The exit branch from Kissamos towards the settlement of Mournia will be removed. Traffic will be served through the intersections being configured. Configuration of the existing road to the east of the southern junction as a cul-de-sac pedestrian-street with light traffic, about 4m wide, in order to serve the existing property. North and south of North Cretan Highway, on the Chanion - Hospital road, the existing form of the interchange is kept. The movement of vehicles should be regulated by traffic lights, as it is today. It is planned to reform the deceleration lanes and acceleration lanes on the Highway, with the construction of 250m long lanes and a 60m long taper. Bus stops, if required, can be placed. 3. There are two proposed solutions on the I/C to Souda, so I’ll left it aside 4. The current mostly two lane road from Souda, Chania to Atsipopoulo, Rethymno will be replaced by a modern motorway. 5. The current three-way intersection in Platani, Chania towards Souda will be replaced by a interchange. It’s difficult to determine its type, but it will have roundabouts and four ramps. 6. The intersection to Aptera will also be replaced by an interchange, and specifically a semi-interchange, although its exact design is still unknown. 7. The curve and the intersection in Kalami will be bypassed with a tunnel, and a new semi interchange to aptera will be built in the eastern end of the tunnel, near the bank of the Koiliaris river. 8. Most of the area between Kalyves and Armenoi will be bypassed (Including the current interchange) and a new interchange will be built. 9. The church of St. Fanourios will be now served by a side-road 10. The whole road from Vryses, Chania to Atsipopoulo, Rethymno will be bypassed. 11. The interchange in Vryses, Chania (which will serve Vamos) will be likely kept, though I can’t really tell. So will the one in Atsipopoulo, Rethymno. Two interchanges, one in Georgioupolis and one in Episkopi will be built along the new road, as well as a service area between them. 12. Georgioupolis will be served by a semi-interchange with two ramps (from and to Chania), but a complete interchange will be also built. The new interchange will be of a cloverleaf-type and have a roundabout and possibly toll posts. 13. Episkopi seems to be now served by a Trumpet-type interchange. 14. The coastal road from Petres to Gerani will be bypassed by tunnels. 15. A municipal road near Gerani will be restored (Note: The village itself will be no longer served) 16. In the Atsipopoulo Interchange, the junction of the northern side street of the highway (K. Karamanli street) at the interchange will be abolished. This traffic will be carried out through the parallel road located further north. A new roundabout will be built on the section where the ramps and the main road are met, though its final size and number of lanes is not fully understood. The southern side road to the east is connected in the current situation with the entrance branch to the highway. It is proposed to remove this connection and connect it to the roundabout to accommodate both eastbound and westbound traffic on the southern bypass. 17. The existing form of the Tympaki/Spili interchange will be kept. Given that this interchange is being developed within a residential area and the traffic load of the road perpendicular to highway is significant, risks are involved, on the one hand, from the involvement of vehicular traffic, and on the other hand, from the frequent crossing of pedestrians. Thus, adding traffic lights has been proposed. 18. Same as above for the I/C in Eastern rethymno (Now called “Amari Interchange”) plus the reformation of the connection with the old road (Machis Kritis avenue) 19. The section from Eastern Rethymno to Linoperamata, Heraklion will be also replaced with a motorway. 20. the section from Eastern Rethymno to Skaleta will be completely bypassed with a new interchange built near Adele to serve Estavromenos. The current road will be connected to the Machis Kritis avenue via a roundabout. 21. The interchange in Adele (Estavromenos) will be of the cloverleaf-type and have two roundabouts. A nearby municipal road will also be restored. 22. New tunnels will be built near Estavromenos. 23. The region of Skaleta will be bypassed. 24. The connection of the current road with the new is not yet finalized. 25. A new interchange will be built in the Latzima region (West of the Geropotamos river) 26. The section of this region to Panormos will be improved 27. The final form of the Panormos interchange is not yet known. 28. Two partial interchanges will be made to serve Exantis and Bali vilages. On both sections the current road will be bypaseed. The western one will hav two basic ramps (from and to Rethymno) and the current junction will be replaced with a roundabout. The eastern one will be built atop the current interchange with two new roundabouts to be built 29. The whole road from Sises to Fodele will be bypassed with the village of Sises to be served by a new interchange and a nearby municipal road to be restored. New tunnels and viaducts will be built. The interchange to Fodele will be built atop the curent intersection 30. The current exit to Achlada will be abolished. 31. A new interchange will be built in Agia Pelagia. 32. Three municipal roads will be restored, including one to Rodia and one near Palaiokastro 33. The two roads will be connected near Pantanassa 34. In the interchange near Linoperamata, Heraklion, the deceleration-acceleration lanes are reformed, with a provision of 250m lane length with a 60m taper length. Light signaling of the two level junctions on either side of the higway is proposed. Νonetheless the form of the existing interchange is kept. 35. In the interchange to Gazi, the construction of 2 roundabouts is proposed, on the “Heraklion - Rethymnon” old highway, one west of 3-ways and one east of 4-ways. Additional expropriation of private land is required at the western roundabout, while since the southwest roundabout is located eccentrically to the axis of the main west-to-east traffic, traffic in this lane becomes problematic. 36. A new interchange will be built towards Pagni (The University General Hospital of Heraklion) 37. The final decition regarding the interchange towards Moires is disputed 38. Given that the distance of the interchange to Foinikia from the one to Moires is very short, as well as the arrangement of the junction is problematic (short lengths of acceleration - deceleration lanes), it is proposed to abolish it. However, in order to do this without creating accessibility problems in the areas they serve, it is necessary to create a side road network that bridges the river both north and south of the highway. 39. The acceleration-deceleration lanes in the interchange to Knossos are lengthened to reach a length of 250m with a taper of 60m. The form of the existing interchange is preserved, while it is proposed to add traffic lights. 40. The deceleration and acceleration lanes in The interchange to Viannos are configured with a length of 250m. with a 60m taper. The existing interchange format is preserved. Traffic lights might be added 41. The acceleration/deceleration lanes to the Airport of Heraklion (Nea Allikarnassos region) is extended to 250m. The existing interchange format is preserved. 42. The final design for the interchange in Karteros is not yet certain 43. A prominent interchange in Anopolis will be built.

For any questions, feel free to contact me. Sincerely, Dimitris M.

My position remains that the roads cannot be added to OpenStreetMap until the construction contract is signed and construction is imminent. Just because the roads are planned does not mean we add them to OpenStreetMap.

Please help me on this user.

– ika-chan!


@ika-chan Your position is correct. I left a comment too at his changeset.


Roads that are not yet under construction, without a planned construction commencement date, may be mapped as 'proposed" which of course requires there to exist proper development plans. Taginfo has this summary



The proposed tag may be used for any road, railway or route that is in planning phase.

Unfortunately in this case, the user mapped the proposed roads as if they were open. In addition, we in the Greek community have a tougher criteria for what projects to include, mainly because there are many of them, and there is no guarantee that all the proposals will make it to the construction stage (usually due to financial limitations).