Complex parking lot tags

[wyskoj]

The parking lots in the City of Houghton have some specific restrictions which I want to make sure I get right in my tagging:

• The parking lot is open to the public.
• The first two hours are free. Permit holders can park 24/7.
• There is no overnight parking during Nov. 1 and Apr. 30 (2 a.m. to 7 a.m.) for snow removal purposes.

I think the tags would be set up in this way:

access:conditional=permit @ stay > 2 hours; no @ Nov 01-Apr 30 02:00-07:00
access=yes
amenity=parking
operator=City of Houghton
parking=surface

Should I also be setting fee or maxstay tags, based on the information I gave?

Hoping someone can check what I have so far.

[Kovoschiz]

To be clear, are the “permits” sold to anyone in advance? Must pay beforehand to park longer than 2hr? New to the City of Houghton?
Do you know what does the winter “permit” allow? Houghton City Council passes ‘reparking’ ordinance amendment, adds additional 24-hour permits, passes Hampton Inn fund request
In general, maxstay=2 hours + maxstay:conditional=none @ * would be shorter than access:conditional= . I suppose fee:conditional=yes @ stay > 2 hours is not wrong, however it overlaps with the permit , which had permit:fee= suggested as a possibility.

[wyskoj]

All good questions and I’ll do my best to answer them

@Kovoschiz

To be clear, are the “permits” sold to anyone in advance?

Yes.

@Kovoschiz

Must pay beforehand to park longer than 2hr?

If you have paid for a permit, you can park indefinitely. Otherwise, you cannot stay for longer than two hours.

@Kovoschiz

Do you know what does the winter “permit” allow?

As far as the winter goes for 24/7 parking (like city residents), I’m not sure yet. I think the protocol is that lots are temporarily closed for snow removal, then reopened.

---

Within the past few days an updated sign has gone up:

So the two hour restriction only applies Mon-Fri 7AM-5PM. Should this affect maxstay or access:conditional? What’s the general guideline for knowing what tag to apply the condition to?

[osmuser63783]

If the two hour limit only applies weekdays 7am to 5pm… then doesn’t that mean you can park longer / overnight for free, without a permit?

Does parking Saturday 7am-10am require a permit or not?

[Kovoschiz]

I doubt there is some specific exhaustive and procedural guideline. The spirit is keeping it simple works best.

maxstay=2 hours
maxstay:conditional=none @ (Mo-Fr 17:00-00:00; permit)
access=yes
access:conditional=permit @ (02:00-07:00)
fee=no 
fee:conditional=yes @ (stay > 2 hours; 02:00-07:00)

1,3,5. It is preferred to use a general restriction as the default to be representative, and remain more compatible. Then override it with other cases.
2,4. Following the winter hours for the definition of overnight parking
4. Assuming parking overnight in winter is usually possible with a permit, it is not neccssary to have a specific restriction for those months. The =permit @ (02:00-07:00) clause would be valid throughout the year.
6. Putting the permit cost in fee:conditional= for now
Additionally, you can specify what happens during public holidays if it is known.

[SekeRob]

Little thread hi-jack, exactly how I figured from digging thru, but found no solution to the actual fee and how to express that in combination with fee:conditional=yes (stay > 3 hours) with a charge of 40 Euro flat, thinking of =40€ @ (stay > 3 hours). The sign kindly tells no parking disk is required, your coming and going is license plate digital recorded. Fee collection described in the small print below, no lift gates, nothing, right next to a busy Lidl supermarket amazingly 3/4 empty.

[dieterdreist (Martin Koppenhöfer)]

so in any case, add surveillance=yes

[Kovoschiz]

Key:charge - OpenStreetMap Wiki :conditional=40 EUR @ (stay > 3 hours) . Don’t change the fee:conditional= .
Then again, it depends on the fee= default. For fee=no, you can argue most people will not park very long time, and fee=yes isn’t helpful upfront. On the other hand, it can be opposed for the expectation that many carparks, especially when adjacent to businesses. offer some hours of free parking. fee=yes may also show there is some mechanism and possibility of paying there, while the actual collection and price depends on the administration. Besides the need to warn there can be a cost, and the concern of compatibility.

[SekeRob]

Great, near 1K uses in TI albeit JOSM Validator considers there’s a syntax issue.

[SekeRob]

• surveillance:type=camera :O))