Clarification about the use of Key:brewery

Help and support Tagging help & support
,
1

I am looking for clarification here on how to use the Key brewery. Here is an fictitious example:
A restaurant has the following entries on its menu/beverage list:

  • Zillertal Bier: Pils (Pilsner)
  • Augustiner Bräu: Export (Lager)
  • Ottakringer Alkoholfrei (non-alcoholic)
  • Traunstein Weißbier Alkoholfrei (non-alcoholic wheat beer)

For this example, only the Zillertal Pils is a draft beer, the other three are bottles.

How to use the brewery Key in general?

List all breweries with semicolon seperated? (I took the values from taginfo)
brewery=Zillertal Bier;Augustiner Bräu München;Ottakringer;Hofbräuhaus Traunstein

Which beer brands should be listed? Only draft beer or also bottles?

If only the beer brands be listed that are tapped than it would only be brewery=Zillertal Bier
Because that’s the example in the wiki:

(e.g. brewery=Krombacher where draft beer comes from Krombacher Brauerei).

Should we document the second most common value various?

How should this value be understood? Simply that there are several, as in the example above?

I would be very happy if this could be re-sharpen in the wiki.
Thanks!

1 Like
2

Meanwhile, I studied a bit the history of the site and also found a proposal “Beer details”. It proposes that the key brewery should be used to list all brands that are served - regardless of whether they are tapped or bottled. In the proposal it is suggested to describe more details with drink:pilsner=draft or drink:pilsner=bottled and more detailed with drink:weizen:Paulaner=draft. Accordingly, I would understand the Key brewery as asking for all available brands.

As a result, I’d like to tighten up the description in the wiki that it’s about all brands of beer served, whether bottled or on tap. Is there any objection to this?

On the talk page it is addressed that the value ‘various’ is not helpful, but meanwhile it takes a high rank in the values. Is it ok that I include this value in the wiki and describe that the point is that many beers are sold here? Or should yes rather be used instead of various to say in general that there is beer served here?

Edit: The iD preset calls the whole field “Draft Beers”, but by what definition? This should also be redefined in the course of this.

{
    "key": "brewery",
    "type": "semiCombo",
    "label": "Draft Beers",
    "terms": [
        "on tap"
    ]
}

And the app EveryDoor promotes a selection of three values: yes, various, no
Not really useful for the Tag :frowning:

3

And the description in iD reads “Location sells beer from named brewery.”, which contradicts that it’s only about draft beers, and the promoted yes/no/various values (they’re not just in EveryDoor).

4

I agree with your proposed changes.

That comment was probably made by someone from a country where every pub has multiple beers on tap. They probably did not realise that there are countries where many pubs, restaurants and cafés only sell one or two beers, and having many different beers available is the exception rather than the rule. In these places brewery=various is useful and says something very different from just “place sells beer”.

By the way when the pub, biergarten, restaurant or café only sells beer from one brewery there is usually a sign outside, and branding everywhere: on the glasses, beer mats, awnings, umbrellas.

This picture helps illustrate the idea.

The two beer brands (Schneider Weisse and König Pilsener) are more prominent than the name of the pub.

To say that a place sells beer, there’s also drink:beer=yes which has been used 2,800 times (brewery=yes: 6,600 times). Is there any difference between the intended definitions of brewery=yes and drink:beer=yes? If not, then should the Wiki page maybe suggest using drink:beer=yes instead of brewery=yes? (Note the page already has brewery=yes and no as possible tagging mistakes.)

Should we also create a bug ticket in Every Door and ask them to encourage people to type the names of beers available, instead of selecting yes/no/various?

Meanwhile, real_ale= has also been badly misunderstood, but that probably deserves its own thread.

1 Like
5

Thanks for your replies!
I’ve changed a lot on the page, added examples and rephrased it from “only draft beer” to “selled beer brands” where suitable.
See changes: Key:brewery: Difference between revisions - OpenStreetMap Wiki

And I’ve created a Pull Request for the iD Tagging Schema: Change "Draft Beer" to "Sold Beer Brands" by mcliquid · Pull Request #1047 · openstreetmap/id-tagging-schema · GitHub

As far as I know, EveryDoor takes all tagging possibilities from iD - where to change the yes/no/various options? I guess not in EveryDoor directly right? @Zverik

6

In Every Door, options for values are taken from taginfo, omitting compound values (yes;various). In 4.0, options from the preset take precedence.

2 Likes
7

Thanks for the info, that was also my guess. Therefore we’re not able to change the most used values. Is there another possibility to change the behavior here? Thanks!

8

Looks great except for

the value various has become common. Nevertheless, please note that this value does not provide any added value and the same information can be expressed with drink:beer=yes

One says they sell beer, the other says they sell many different beers. Like I said above I find that worth tagging, especially in places where having many different beers is unusual. The German Wiki showed it well I thought: use various when there are too many to spell them out (as a rough guide, 5 or more).

1 Like
9

Thanks, I’ve changed this!

1 Like
10

I agree; after all it is not all that hard to hit 255-char limit. There is also another case when they are frequently changing (like on weekly/monthly basis), even when they would fit. See this comment of mine for more info: Add brewery quest by mcliquid · Pull Request #475 · Helium314/SCEE · GitHub

So I think various values should be documented on the wiki as such and removed from Possible tagging mistakes section, especially given its non-insignificant (>2000) usage, which is in fact by far most popular value for brewery=* key (after even more generic yes)

I’d suggest to users to also add the description=* tag when brewery=various is added, to provide some more clarification for expecting user; e.g. description=more then 2000 different bottled beers in stock, and 29 drafts on tap or similar.

1 Like
11

I knew it was going to be about Delirium before I clicked the link :grinning: