Adding `image:menu` on resturants?

General talk Tagging general discussion
, , ,
1

Recently, MapComplete by @Pieter_Vander_Vennet has added a support for adding a image of a restaurant menu (to their Panoramax instance). E.g. Node: ‪Vidikovac-Sljeme‬ (‪1239878107‬) | OpenStreetMap.

In changeset 157532200 @mueschel suggested that those might not be publishable without an explicit owner permission.

Thus, I’m seeking wider community view on the issue. While in that particular case I don’t see either a copyright problem nor an owner opposition (the menus are also printed on the outside of the object, and waiter had no problem with waiting for picture of the menus to be taken in from of them), nobody requested the staff to call the owner to ask for their opinion/permission.

So what is general opinion of those? Are links to images of restaurant menus allowed to be published in OSM? And if so, is it a good idea?
I see menus prominently published in many restaurant-review sites (e.g. restaurantguru.com) but I have not heard such complaints before.

While I’m impartial on that particular subject (actually, I find MapComplete an easiest webapp to collect pictures pertaining to OSM objects), there was somewhat related discussion about publishing internet passwords in OSM , which, while completely different subject, do have some surprisingly similar arguments.

So I guess the question boils down is publishing links to pictures of menus (or even publishing links to pictures of interior/exterior of the restaurants) closer to publishing opening_hours of the place, or closer to publishing internet passwords or sex/race of the owner?

2

So, a general poll about whether links (in OSM) to images (outside of OSM, e.g. panoramax instance or amenity website) of restaurant menus are good idea:

  • Sure, why not, publish them always if you want
  • It’s fine if it is printed on the outside too, but not if only visible inside
  • Only should publish them if amenity makes it public on the Internet
  • Only if the owner (not waiter) gives explicit permission
  • Should never be publish such links in OSM
  • It’s complicated (please leave comment)
0 voters
3

I don’t see a direct relation to things like passwords or other sensitive information. I’m perfectly fine with having links to online resources such as webpages or PDFs that are already available on the internet.

But I see a case of plain copyright violation in some of the cases. For example I remember there is / was a POI with 10 links to photographs of individual pages of the printed menu in a nicely designed booklet. Usually these are done by a design company that sell the menus, but not the unlimited right to reproduce them. Taking and publishing detailed photos of them can be in direct violation of these terms. That would be a legal problem not for OSM itself, but for the individual publishing these images.

4

Regarding Panoramax, this kind of picture is far from the concept of street level imagery.

As long as we have no way to qualify pictures as being indoor, documents or more generally non street level ones, we should avoid this kind of use of Panoramax.

5

What about images like this? (I took this one, of the exterior of a food truck)

I often see menus posted in the windows of restaurants that are clearly meant to be visible to people passing by on the street.

3 Likes
6

AFAIK, MapComplete uses Panoramax for these use cases due to Imgur ToS not allowing use by MC anymore. @Pieter_Vander_Vennet might be able to provide an answer to this.

1 Like
7

While I don’t have much experience on this topic, if copyrighted images would be uploaded to some image hosting service, and subsequently linked to OSM, would OSM even face legal issues here? I’m inclined to say respecting copyright law is the responsibility of the individual.

For people who are picky about food or have dietary requirements, images of menus can be a massive help when planning where to go eat. IMO, the benefits far outweight the risks here.

Also: good job on implementing this into MapComplete!

8

There a substantial difference between taking the photo and publishing it, as the OSMF is not actually hosting it though it is mainly an issue for the mapper in question.

That said I would note that we are not running a business directory here and having a link to the website in OSM should be far more than enough detail (at least that is likely to change less often than the menu).

6 Likes
9

That would be the reason I would think they shouldn’t be listed in OSM - menu’s frequently change during the year.

1 Like
10

Regardless of all the other issues, if this question is fundamentally a legal one, this is not something to be resolved with a forum vote.

2 Likes
11

While I don’t expect OSM to face any legal issues with photographs hosted on other websites, I think it advisable to only point to official sources simply for reasons of availability. If the linked image is legally problematic, then it might just be deleted without notice and suddenly we have a dead link.

Of course that restarts the debate over imperfect data vs no data at all.

1 Like