Wikipedia-Community: Can someone summarize what Wikipedia Kartographer does

tordans · 2022-07-19T07:15:19.339Z

Hey! I wanted to nudge someone who already looked into the new mapping feature for Wikipedia “Kartographer” to create a blog post from the point of view of the OSM community.

de.m.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia:Kartensaison/Kartographer

Mit Kartographer lassen sich Karten ganz unterschiedlicher Komplexität erstellen – vom einfachen Kartenausschnitt bis hin zu komplexen Karten mit Farben, Markern, Daten aus Wikidata-Abfragen und mehr. Diese Seite gibt einen Überblick, was mit Kartographer möglich ist, unterteilt in Inhalte für Kartographer-Neulinge und -Fortgeschrittene. Zu finden sind hier Vielen ist diese Möglichkeit kaum bekannt, aber: Mit dem VisualEditor lassen sich schnell einfache Karten erzeugen. Hier findest du e...

de.m.wikipedia.org

Wikipedia:Kartensaison

Die Kartensaison endet offiziell am 14. Juli 2022. Auf diesen Seiten darf der Austausch über Kartographer, über Kartenwünsche usw. aber gerne weitergehen. Ich bin allerdings jetzt erstmal im Urlaub.-- Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (Diskussion) 14:03, 14. Jul. 2022 (CEST)[Beantworten] Seit dem 7. Juni 2022 ist es auch in der deutschsprachigen Wikipedia möglich, mit vergleichsweise geringem Aufwand interaktive Karten zu erzeugen: Kartographer steht nun endlich auch hier zur Verfügung. Viele Artikel w...

I think it would be great to use this new feature to increase the cooperation between both projects.

Sam_Wilson · 2022-07-20T02:33:07.335Z

Are you looking for info about how to use the Kartographer extension on e.g. the OSM wiki? Or how to use it on Wikimedia wikis?

I think one of the key things to know about the OSM–Wikimedia integration is that the wikidata key on an OSM feature is what’s used to display geometry on a Wikimedia wiki page (e.g. this wiki page shows this OSM boundary). There’s also a link in the other direction, from a Wikidata item (as OSM relation ID) but this doesn’t get used by Kartographer for displaying on-wiki maps.

tordans · 2022-07-23T04:45:00.923Z

Thanks Sam, the extension docs are helpful, thanks!

Here are a few thinks I learned from that and from other conversations. Maybe we can stitch together a full picture here :).

The extension can show points and areas from all kinds of sources. But the most important source for OSM is the wikidata-key on a osm object.
- Off all the methods to pull geometries into Kartographer this is the only one where OSM is involved, right? Or are there indirect methods via SPARQL (…)?
- This is an indirect relation: The OSM object gets the tag; wikipedia looks directly at the OSM data; no wikidata-to-osm “relation” is needed
- Do we know how they do this? I suspect they have their own minutely updated DB?
A map can have multiple Wikidata IDs (like shown in Help:Extension:Kartographer - MediaWiki)
However, I heard that the map cannot handle the case when a Wikidata ID is tagged on multiple OSM objects. If true, I really hope they will fix it, since showing a road in Wikipedia mean, liking to the Wikidata ID of the Road which in turn is added to all road segments.
- Do we know if this issues will be worked on? Is there a public tracker for issues?
It looks like there is no tooling from Kartographer to add the Wikidata ID, so that needs to be looked up manually, right?
I wonder, if only wikidata keys or also all the other *:wikidata:* key would work. The docs only reference wikidata, but from an OSM point of view we would want tags like subject:wikidata and such whenever needed… – They link the wikidata wiki page which in turn explains those other tags, so that is fine I guess.

315Lukas · 2022-07-26T09:53:08.815Z

tordans:

The extension can show points and areas from all kinds of sources. But the most important source for OSM is the wikidata-key on a osm object.

Off all the methods to pull geometries into Kartographer this is the only one where OSM is involved, right? Or are there indirect methods via SPARQL (…)?

This is an indirect relation: The OSM object gets the tag; wikipedia looks directly at the OSM data; no wikidata-to-osm “relation” is needed

Do we know how they do this? I suspect they have their own minutely updated DB?

Help:Extension:Kartographer/OSM - MediaWiki outlines how to add a wikidata ID to an OSM object. They suggest adding wikipedia and wikidata tags (no mention of subject:wikidata or any other *:wikidata:* key).
The database is updated daily:

The data should become available for Wikipedia in about 1 day (we are still working on making this quicker)

tordans:

However, I heard that the map cannot handle the case when a Wikidata ID is tagged on multiple OSM objects. If true, I really hope they will fix it, since showing a road in Wikipedia mean, liking to the Wikidata ID of the Road which in turn is added to all road segments.

Do we know if this issues will be worked on? Is there a public tracker for issues?

Help:Extension:Kartographer/OSM - MediaWiki suggests adding the Wikidata ID to a (new) route relation covering all road segments.
Issues are tracked here: Maps (Kartographer) · Workboard

yvecai · 2022-07-26T19:56:33.123Z

315Lukas:

suggests adding the Wikidata ID to a (new) route relation covering all road segments.

Quite close to heresy, IMO

Sam_Wilson · 2022-08-18T06:43:04.057Z

What’s wrong with making a relation that contains all parts of a road? I do that quite often!

I think it makes sense that a Wikidata ID shouldn’t be on more than one object — it’s supposed to represent a single entity, and if that entity can’t be modeled in OSM as a single feature then it seems reasonable that all of its features should be contained together in a relation (although a boundary way is also pretty common for this too, e.g. for a school or whatever that contains many buildilngs).

dieterdreist · 2022-08-18T08:23:01.799Z

Sam_Wilson:

I think it makes sense that a Wikidata ID shouldn’t be on more than one object — it’s supposed to represent a single entity, and if that entity can’t be modeled in OSM as a single feature then it seems reasonable that all of its features should be contained together in a relation

I don’t follow this reasoning, a wikidata id is meant to represent a single entity in wikidata and if we can’t represent this with a single object in OpenStreetMap because of reasons, there is nothing wrong with having the wikidata id on several objects. We can also create an additional object to collect the parts, but it is not the only way that makes sense

Sam_Wilson · 2022-08-18T08:44:44.466Z

I don’t mean from the Wikidata side: I think that it makes more sense on OSM for a single thing to be united by a relation, if all the parts of it are of the same thing. A road for example, should definitely be a relation — don’t you agree?

It’s definitely not the only way that makes sense, you’re right, but I don’t think it’s a wrong way at all. It also makes things easier for people using the data elsewhere, so that’s a bonus.

dieterdreist · 2022-08-18T09:10:13.060Z

Sam_Wilson:

I don’t mean from the Wikidata side: I think that it makes more sense on OSM for a single thing to be united by a relation, if all the parts of it are of the same thing. A road for example, should definitely be a relation — don’t you agree?

I am not sure what a single thing is, e.g. a road, what is the criterion? Does it have to be linear or can there be bifurcations? Is it only the name that counts? Address within the same municipality?
If we make a relation to have just one time the wikidata id than it seems the reasoning is outsourced to wikidata and following their rules and concepts of what is a thing.

HuggeK · 2024-08-21T22:59:12.937Z

tordans:

This is an indirect relation: The OSM object gets the tag; wikipedia looks directly at the OSM data; no wikidata-to-osm “relation” is needed

I´m intrested if you know more than I do. I cannot get Kartographer (Specifically Maplink) to display a map of a feature. The Kartographer should have the data becuase OSM have the wikidata ID after some day. But still the map is not rendered. Not before I add the OSM properties P10689 or P402 in my case into the articles Wikidata entry. Kartographer doesnt do a lookup via a api when it tries to resolve it without a P10689 or P402 as I have seen.

We need to document the default beahviour of mapframe and maplink/ kartographer if a id= is not provided. Which steps does the software go through to find a shape to display nicely depending where it is called from? (article in Wikipedia)
Feels like we need a tool which looks at the copy and ads the relevant. Would be great if Kartographer would do this in the background and
then we can focus on to use tools as https://map.osm.wikidata.link/ as is described in this article and all template use will be much easier when you don´t know what Q-ID you want to render a map on specifically!

See Extension talk:Kartographer - MediaWiki