I disagree with claim that old open notes are automatically a problem. Or that there should be a limit on how many open notes one account may have.
I agree that some people create many useless notes and they should be asked to stop doing this. What counts as completely useless note will depend on local community.
It seems that we have moved away from the topic and I ask the moderators to put the discussion of limits for non-anonymous users in a separate topic.
I also have doubts about 80,000 notes from one unnamed cartographer, when there are currently less than 7,000 notes open in Brazil. And 110,000 for the entire time https://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-notes-country?c=Brazil
Ha Ha, according HDYC closed 816 notes (13 w/o comment) and opened 800, so Iām a net solver, a teeny, but otherwise I very rarely look there simply because one keeps visiting the same ones in a plastered area reading for instance āAnonymousā notes about a defibrillator here there and everywhere but when seeking out it is always something the person noted it from reading in the paper and putting the tag somewhere not even remotely close where actual access point it. So, a map plastered with red pins has not my interest. If Iām logged in AND READ IT but cant readily solve, then turn the colour to maybe orange or blue, so you can find it back quicker. As such since it irritates to no end to be reminded of those same I cannot solve anyway, disabled the particular quest SC too.
In such case I would close them with āvisited note location, no AED hereā
With this I agree - it would also be useful to know which notes are new and which ones Iāve seen already.
Would require a bit of programming and storing data on opened notes that a user has viewed, either by OSM API or by some third party.
Yes, a great part of the notes in Brazil are from one single cartographer:
More than a quarter of all notes opened and nearly half of all notes closed :D
I assume that most of the notes are notes in Brazil of course.
To me it sounds more like a GUI issue and you want to filter notesā¦
Removing anonymous notes and forcing everyone to have an account isnāt going to solve any of the current problems; in fact, it is only going to create more problems.
Anonymous users can only create new notes, they cannot comment on open notes, and they cannot close nor reopen any notes.
But any account can do all of that.
If anonymous notes are removed, then those users will create accounts that will allow them to still create new notes, but also interact with every other note.
In a couple of notes that I saw and interacted with recently, one was from a newly created account that created a note indicating the name for an already-existing and already-visible city wall (it seems pretty common that many users think of the notes as map labels).
The other note requested a newly opened association to be added on the map, but on an open note about something else nearby, and then spammed opened and closed the note repeatedly (this is also pretty common idk why)
Iām afraid that if anonymous notes are removed, many users will create new accounts and will continue to do the same notes that they do now anonymously. Or they will wrongly interact with already opened notes, leading to a much worse situationā¦
I have solved many nodes in Colombia and Latin America, and with my colleague @risturiz, we have considered these things.
Anonymous notes have been an issue, not because of the content, but because we cannot contact the creator for more details. We donāt have the communication channel that offers OSM notes.
Non-anonymous notes do not solve the previous problem because many āhit-and-runā users create an OSM account, make a note, and never answer a note comment. However, in this case, we (note solvers) feel better because we send a message to someone before closing the note. But in the end, the problem is the same; only perception changes.
After closing thousands of notes and leaving notes in almost all of them, I have received an answer in only a few cases.
The age of the note is also an issue, and I can compare this issue to an un-updated ancient OSM feature. In both cases, we cannot be sure that the element it refers to still exists. This case is important for shops or notes about shops created before the COVID-19 lockdown. We all know that many businesses have closed, and if the notes from 2015 say ānew hair room,ā or there is a mapped hair room from 2015 that has not been updated, both of them are controversial. Do they still exist? Is the common question. However, adding a new shop in 2025 based on a 2015 note is even more contentious. Each community should make its own decisions (use other data sources like Mapillary to validate, visit the place, or close them). There is no general guideline on this, and each local community should create guidelines and eliminate all these old notes. However, each community should keep a very low rate of open notes, as Chile has been doing for years. The time to solve a note is crucial; if possible, having under a day will be great. Solving or leaving open a 10-year-old note does not make any change. But, only having open notes under 1 day old is fantastic.
Regarding the content of the notes, I have seen that they are misused. Armchair mappers should not create OSM notes from the computer to detect issues in OSM. For this kind of feedback, there are other tools: MapRoulette, Tasking Manager, DAMN project, etc. The mapper could create a GeoJSON and then make a project using those tools to identify problems, and the community could help.
Letās forget that a mapper on the field will check the surrounding notes. During on-the-ground data collection, every mapper will concentrate on getting the data they want. Or even worse, letās do a mapping party to only close notes; the assistants will be annoyed with this kind of event. Eventually, a tool like StreetComplete will help to solve these OSM notes, but this case is rare.
So, notes should only be used by people on the ground to notify OSM mappers of an error between the map and reality. OSM notes should be considered a feedback mechanism from OSM users to OSM mappers. Other uses of OSM notes could be ignored, and therefore, the notes should be closed.
Iāve seen a lot of these notes as well over the years. I wonder if some newcomers see the notes functionality and intuitively liken it to Google My Maps or Wikimapia ā where you are supposed to annotate the map with names of things of interest that are already on the basemap.
How about the reverse? Many times, Iāve come across a news report or social media post noting that a shop is slated to open or close sometime in the next few months. Ideally someone on the ground would verify the information, as plans can change within that timeframe. Sometimes it works, and the map is better off for it. Other times, someone comes along nine years later, chastising me for opening the note and closing it without bothering to check if the map has been updated, because the note no longer brings them joy. Clearly I shouldāve set a personal reminder nine years ago, but better late than never?
Iām pretty sure that this confusion is pretty common due to notes being named as ānotesā, and not āsuggestionsā, āissuesā, āproposalsā, āproblemsā or another similar thing.
If they were named differently (such as āsuggestionsā or āissuesā), Iām sure that these āpersonal notesā, ālabelsā and ātravel reviewā notes will be much more uncommon.
Although changing the name now Iām pretty sure it will be unviable; and it will also not help towards those who know what notes are and do, but still use them wronglyā¦
well, it could be named āmap issuesā in the apps, without anything changing on the official side.
I suspect not - this was discussed seemingly endlessly when ānotesā first appeared to replace āOpenStreetBugsā. OSB had many of the same issues, even back in 2008.
Nitpicking: notes didnāt really āreplaceā OSB it -is- OSB, simply integrated in to the OSM API.
The counter is specific for anonymous notes posted on osm.org. It is stored in the web browser. After 10 anonymous notes, it displays this warning :
Details of the online version are in this comment of the PR.
As I said in the first comment of the PR, an additional change could be to hide the form after 50 anonymous notes.
I was going to write a new post, but then I recalled that this thread existed. Since it has been almost two years since this discussion started, Iād like to reignite it again.
It is my opinion that while anonymous notes can be incredibly useful at times, theyāre also rife with abuse and spam. I do not believe anonymous notes as they function right now are a net benefit to OpenStreetMap.
During my time as an OSM mapper Iāve encountered many situations where anonymous notes were used in a harmful way. Some of them include:
Iāve seen anonymous users create hundreds of notes in a short time, often just copying information from other oftentimes unknown sources. Example
Many anonymous notes are pure spam.
People sometimes unknowingly share private information, not knowing notes are public.
Sometimes people leave harmful, intentionally incorrect, or abusive notes.
One situation specifically stands out to me. A person was angry at us (the Dutch community) for mapping his driveway. He created hundreds of progressively more abusive notes. Notes insulting fellow OSM mappers, threatening to sue us, or harm us. This culminated in the anonymous person accusing a user of being a pedophile and including that personās address in their anonymous notes. context
Example of abuse:
Of course non-anonymous notes can and are also being abused. However the signal-to-noise ratio of notes from registered users is generally much better. Plus, when someone is abusing the note system, it is of course, possible to block that account. With anonymous users it is very difficult to do such a thing. The DWG has the ability to automatically hide certain types of obvious abuse, but that system is far from foolproof.
Do people believe that the benefits of anonymous notes outweigh their downsides?
Is something like Block anonymous notes above a given threshold Ā· Issue #5934 Ā· openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website Ā· GitHub a good compromise?
If it was down to me, Iād suggest we block anonymous notes tomorrow and direct people to sign up before leaving a note. However, that wasnāt the majority view in the poll years ago in the top of the thread.
Opinion was very close among people bothering to solve notes and it was years ago.
Maybe it is a time for new thread with a new poll?
I am spending some effort on processing notes and I would support requiring account before creating notes.
(DWG anyway keeps blocking and autohiding all anonymous notes in KrakĆ³w anyway, to deal with a persistent troll. So main damage for me is averted).
I agree with the messages here. Anonymous notes can be valuable, but the amount of unhelpful anonymous notes we receive makes this unsustainable.
