Vector tiles on OSMF hardware

Richard · 2024-11-13T14:50:33.978Z

InsertUser:

If they’re definitely bugs then I think the correct place is the Versatiles github repository.

It isn’t - Versatiles is a separate project and not what Paul is working on here.

InsertUser · 2024-11-13T15:09:36.686Z

So style issues shouldn’t be reported anywhere?

matheusgomesms · 2024-11-13T15:35:54.269Z

I asked the same question many months ago and could not receive an answer. I wanted to report some service ways missing, but couldn’t. Posting again here, perhaps I’ll be luckier this time.

They told me it’s not shortbread nor Versatiles, so I’m a bit lost here.

In this case, what is missing is the rendering of ways with highway=service + service=driveway.

InsertUser · 2024-11-13T17:12:43.450Z

matheusgomesms:

In this case, what is missing is the rendering of ways with highway=service + service=driveway.

In the tiles linked at the top of the post I am seeing examples of:

streets 
    bridge: false
    kind: service
    oneway: false
    oneway_reverse: false
    rail: false
    service: driveway
    tunnel: false

So that’s not a shortbread limitation or a limitation of whatever software is creating the vector.openstreetmap.org/shortbread_v1 tiles. It just happens to not render on the demo page that uses those, which at present is using Versatiles colorful.

What I’m struggling to find in the 60 page megathread is an indication of what the initial style will be when (if?) this (eventually) gets incorporated into the main website and where is best to put things on the wish list.

Post 92 on that thread says:

Minutely updated vector tiles demo

Assuming the second part is picked up by the OSMF it will be Shortbread initially followed up Street Spirit.

So if nothing has changed it will eventually be the Street Spirit style^[1], preceded by some unknown style using the style independent shortbread tiles.

As far as I can tell there is no interim style (or fork thereof) named as the one that will be used initially so there is nothing to put requests to that is OSM affiliated.

The only preview I can see of this is here. ↩︎

InsertUser · 2024-11-14T15:41:09.473Z

I am seeing some very odd (caching?) things happening at the moment.

Last night I did some editing that added a beach (w1333595340) and a few other things including water bodies.

This was partially visible about four hours later at zoom 15.62 and I grabbed a screenshot:

image686×572 26.5 KB

and also partly visible at zoom 13.35:

Today however I can only see the beach and canal at zoom 13.x and they have disappeared again at z14+:

Another browser’s incognito mode, QGIS and a separate Android tablet show pre-beach-edit tiles at zoom 14.

Additional Firefox weirdness

An additional layer of confusing for me is that the pnorman.github.io/tilekiln-shortbread-demo/ demo and the https://1ec5.github.io/tilekiln-shortbread-demo/ when viewed in Firefox seem to be showing me different cached versions of the same tile zoom 13 column 2374 row 3517 one without and one with the beach (respectively) even though they are both ostensibly the same file. I have deleted cookies and site data for both and then done a hard refresh with the cache disabled in the Network inspector and this persists. Neither site is showing the beach in a Chrome (or Microsoft Edge) incognito window so I think this bit is probably Firefox being weird and insisting on showing and old thing when it has been instructed to get it fresh.

Is there any reason why I would be getting tiles with old data having previously received tiles with newer data?

pnorman · 2024-11-15T21:58:07.286Z

SimonPoole:

Paul, what is the plan going forward with respect to multi-lingual (name) tags support? This is the thing that most people wanted vector tiles for (misguided or not), so I would think that at least some more languages should be supported than just German and English.

I have opened an issue in Shortbread for this.

SimonPoole:

That isn’t quite clear, Is the statement

There is no approved usage policy. You can still use the service right now.

InsertUser:

How often does this layer get updated? Is it taking minutely diffs.and if so how long are cached tiles expected to hang around before replacement?

It is consuming minutely diffs. We have not yet tweaked caching settings so don’t know how long they will be held in the CDN.

Various style questions

The style the demo page is using is Versatiles Colorful. Style bugs should be reported there. Do not report vector tile issues there. If the tiles produced do not follow the Shortbread Vector Tile Schema 1.0 this should be reported with the definitions. Change suggestions for the Shortbread specification should be reported to its github page.

Errors serving (e.g. 5xx tiles, etc) can be reported here. They might be an issue in Tilekiln, the backend server setup, or the Fastly setup.

InsertUser:

As far as I can tell there is no interim style (or fork thereof) named as the one that will be used initially so there is nothing to put requests to that is OSM affiliated

I’m not sure what OSM affiliated means in this context. None of the styles of the featured layers on osm.org are controlled by the OSMF or the general OSM community, they are all the responsibility of their maintainers.

InsertUser:

Is there any reason why I would be getting tiles with old data having previously received tiles with newer data?

One of the servers has stalled in updates and I haven’t yet investigated. The monitoring (not yet enabled) would have shown this.

PeachyOne · 2024-11-15T22:32:48.736Z

The style may not be controlled by OSM or the OSMF, but Carto Is run on OSMF hardware and is propagated largely because it is on said hardware.
The vector tiles would be much the same and its pretty normal for it to be given a similar degree of scrutiny.

SimonPoole · 2024-11-16T10:11:22.766Z

Actually you can use any shortbread compatible mapbox-gl style you want.

While we are kind of assuming that the OSMF might provide a selection of such styles together with the vector tile service, it isn’t a given (and they are not doing it at this point in time).

frodrigo · 2024-11-17T14:09:10.619Z

pnorman:

~~https://vector.openstreetmap.org/shortbread_v1/{z}/{x}/{y}.mvt~~

Just a remark. Please, try to avoid promoting the direct tiles URL, but in place promote the tilejson URL. We have now a new chance to avoid the attribution drama. As the tilejson include the attribution, and show it by default on map (like in MapLibre GL).

InsertUser · 2024-11-17T16:22:50.490Z

Not everything that support vector tiles supports tilejson.

for example:

Making people parse JSON in their heads isn’t the most user friendly strategy.

Geonick · 2024-11-17T21:55:12.376Z

Lake “Obersee” Relation: ‪Obersee‬ (‪32367‬) | OpenStreetMap broken in the Demo map https://pnorman.github.io/tilekiln-shortbread-demo/#12.43/47.20893/8.8746 ?

stillhart · 2024-11-18T21:56:59.352Z

Upload your personal map style to openstreetmap.org
Share maps in that style
Would be wonderful

jidanni · 2024-11-19T09:26:15.483Z

GitHub

Issues · pnorman/osmf-shortbread-todo

Contribute to pnorman/osmf-shortbread-todo development by creating an account on GitHub.

says

Your ability to open an issue in this repository is currently blocked. If you feel this is in error, please contact the repository’s owner.

I was going to suggest that
https://pnorman.github.io/tilekiln-shortbread-demo/
add a “zoom to my current location” button, so people can see nearby tiles without having to pan and zoom and pan and zoom manually,

SomeoneElse · 2024-11-19T11:19:14.111Z

jidanni:

I was going to suggest that

That’s just an example github repository - can you create a map somewhere else on a bit of web hosting and implement it?

jidanni · 2024-11-19T11:42:06.842Z

I see. An example repository with example issues.

Rather advanced. So I’ll be leaving this topic. Thanks anyway.

SomeoneElse · 2024-11-19T12:03:45.808Z

jidanni:

Rather advanced

Not really - it’s literally just creating a web page with the same contents as the current one but with an extra button on it. You don’t even need to change the map style.

Lots of people have been keen to offer “dark mode” help and advice elsewhere - maybe someone will help you here?

Koreller · 2024-11-22T14:22:28.233Z

@pnorman Is it planned to keep the “OSM Carto” style for vector tiles, especially on Lines, Areas and Symbols, or to change the style?

SomeoneElse · 2024-11-22T15:04:21.006Z

Just to take a step back (since someone was asking a related question elsewhere) there are are two parts to the answer.

With vector tiles, the first part is “is a certain feature included in the schema”. In the case of Shortbread, the current schema is here. The current example tiles use Shortbread, but I’ve no idea about future plans (that may be a question for the EWG).

The second part of the question is “will any particular map style show a particular feature”, and if it does, “will it show it in the same way as OSM Carto”.

The example map based on these Vector tiles is using the “Versatiles Colorful” style. That doesn’t show everything, and it shows things in a way more like OSM Bright than OSM Carto. However, creating a different map style based on a vector schema is essentially an artistic exercise rather than an IT project.

Based on the number of people with an opinion** about Dark Mode, I’d expect thousands of OSM styles to appear real soon now.

** yes, I know what opinions are like

NHJR · 2024-11-26T11:01:57.321Z

Does the “service” attribute of “streets” layer work on railway lines? Can’t remove yard lines when zoomed out

image838×429 120 KB

SomeoneElse · 2024-11-26T14:00:06.374Z

To clarify the above question a bit - the schema says that the “service” field should be set to “value of service=*”, but service appears not to be set in the picture above.

At least one implementation of this schema does do things with “service” on railway == "rail", so I’d suggest creating an issue at the issue tracker that was linked above - it looks like a feature of this implementation, rather than the schema itself.