If there’s a copyrighted list of store locations for example, can I use it just to know where to go, then survey each spot myself in person (my own photos, my own GPS) and map it from that? Or does using the list at all count as copying, even if everything I add comes from my own survey?
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As I understand this is fine.
assuming that
without “I spotted shop it, and I know brand from Google Street View so I added it”
and without “I went on walk and double-checked with Google Street View”
warning: I am not a lawyer
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To take it to an extreme: could I pull every POI Google Maps has for a city, go visit them all in person, and map what I gather from my own survey (not from Google) - ending up with basically the exact same map in practice? I won’t actually do it, just testing limits.
Should I ask the LWG?
this seems extremely unlikely, and I would treat it as a proof that no actual survey took place
locations will be subtly different, name= in OSM follows different practices than Google equivalent, some will be missing and still listed at Google, OSM mapper would presumably spot something else not present in Google, classification system is different, some mapped as one place will be mapped as multiple - and reverse…
yes, though at that scale you can just walk every/random road in a city
warning: still not a lawyer
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I would first check is it answered by them and findable with some thorough search
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Copyright is essentially not relevant (with exception of data published in the EU that clears the (high) hurdles for database protection) in this scenario, but assuming it is actually Google that you are using, your agreement with them doesn’t allow it
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Good call, it was answered for the case of first party sources, like the chain’s own website.
It is completely allowed as far as the OSMF is concerned, though it can expose you the mapper to legal risks.
In practice this is the only use case I care about. Thank you for the help!
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though this opinion definitely does not cover say Google Maps listings
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Warning: I am not a lawyer.
My understanding: I can freely use Google Maps to determine where to go. I am not allowed to use Google Maps for anything else. Pulling or making a list of POIs from Google Maps for OSM-mapping is not allowed.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.
- As others have said, for the avoidance of doubt, you can’t use Google Maps for this for contractual reasons.
- My entirely personal reading of “If there’s a copyrighted list of store locations”, where that list is on the store’s own website, has always been that the list is provided with an implied licence of “provided for the use of informing users where our stores are”. So using it in the manner that you describe is entirely within the implied licence. (I am, and remain, not a lawyer.)
- Using copyrighted maps as a base for planning your own surveys was the subject of a court case in Singapore back in 2008/09 (Virtual Map v Singapore Land Authority). SLA produced the originals, VM did the copying. SLA won the case. The facts of this particular case are murky and not very conclusive, so I hesitate to draw on them as a clear precedent. But nonetheless, it demonstrates that there is, at least, a plausible argument that using copyrighted maps as a base for survey can be deemed “copying”. There is no implied licence that the original maps are provided for the purpose of enabling purchasers to make their own maps (this point is addressed explicitly in the appeal judgment). OSM’s attitude has always been that we strive to be whiter-than-white on copyright, rather than getting bogged down in arguing debatable grounds for copying, so we don’t do this.
- As a general observation (not particularly directed at OP’s argument, more at the sort of thing we see on Reddit now and then), OSM has been around for 22 years now and we have pretty much settled what is a legitimate, and legal, surveying technique. The answer to “I am very clever and have thought of this whizzy new legal argument which is completely bulletproof” is almost always “no you haven’t”.
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