А на Гуглокартах КРЫМНАШ…
Ну да, конечно. Обсуждали.
- Прямого указания нигде не видно
- Морские границы гугль особо и не рисует.
- Вид же сухопутной зависит от версии сайта (и пользователя). На maps.google.com граница аналогична абхазской внутри Грузии
A number of edits in Crimea have ignored http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Working_Group_Minutes/DWG_2014-06-05_Special_Crimea.
There is a need to undo these edits, but I wanted to get feedback on the plan and identification of edits.
From a technical side, the tentative plan is
-
Download all the changes that need reverting and merge them for further processing, so consecutive changes to the same object appear as one changes
-
Undo changes to name, addr:street, or name:en, but excluding the addition of new tags.
-
Undo changes to addr:country, and don’t exclude the addition of new tags.
So far I have identified the following as users who have changesets that need reverting
-
Kostik
-
baltico
-
ll2820
Paul Norman
For the Data Working Group
pnorman, DWG to the Crimea decision has nothing to do with the existing reality. Please do not start a war between the edits DWG and those who draw the map after the fact.
I still about 3 million tourists, who rested in the Crimea this summer can attest that most of the edits in Crimea paid only after the fact.
pnorman
The DWG decision is obsolete. Since that time it is clear that Crimea is not disputed region.
So - keep your hands off.
Hi Paul,
The changes in name tags (name, addr:street) are based on the truth on the ground principle, in the exact compliance with:
why should they be reverted?
99% сделанных мной в Крыму ченджсетов было до объявления моратория, это раз. Во вторых это уже напоминает какие то “санкции” к русскоязычному сообществу.
Голословное утверждение
wowik ИМХО забыл добавить. Можешь хотя бы по данной теме хронологию отследить, когда было решение DWG, а когда были ченджсеты.
Скорее к сторонникам аннексии независимо от их “происхождения”.
Some changes were, but others were determined not to be. It is those ones that will be reverted.
usm78-gis Кому “аннексия”, а кому вхождение в состав на основании референдума.
pnorman Не надо заниматься вандализмом, была добавлена куча названий на национальных языках в тегах name:ru, name:uk.
Google translate:
Do not engage in vandalism, has been added to a bunch of names in the national languages in the tag name: ru, name: uk.
Вот и отследите, а так - только болтаете. “99%”
Paul, can you provide some examples of changesets that should be reverted? Reverting is destructing community, may be it is better to find a consensus and correct affected tags?
ll2820’s changesets are probably the easiest to look at. I haven’t gone from a list of users to changesets yet. Unfortunately, just looking at the changesets doesn’t tell you much as I asked the users to see what the basis was for their changes.
As a reminder, the resolution stated,
Users ignoring this have significantly increased the workload in determining what is going on, and are a large part of the reason it has taken this long, as I did not want to revert for solely non-meaningful changeset comments.
If both sides can come to an agreement reflecting on the ground principles, I’d be glad and the DWG wouldn’t need to step in. I am doubtful this will be able to happen.
Well, may I ask you BEFORE reverting anything please carefully read the “Background” section of this two-years-old document:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Data_working_group/Disputes#Crimea_Naming_Dispute
It states rather clear about what is going on in Crimea at “on the ground” level.
Ok, I took a look at his last changeset, this one:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/22742110
He changed names of three streets, all in similar fashion. He made the value of ‘name’ tag to be equal to that of ‘name:ru’ tag rather than ‘name:uk’. Ok, lets take a look at one of that streets. This one: “Фрунзе улица (90760172, v15)”,
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/90760172
And now please see a panorama view of the street:
http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVvqI8Mn
Do you see the street name plate? It says “ул. Фрунзе”, while in Ukrainian it should be “вул. Фрунзе” (name:uk=Фрунзе вулиця, name:ru=Фрунзе улица, both “улица” and “вулиця” means “street”). The panoramas were taken several years ago I guess, long before all that mess between Russia and Ukraine (at least number plates at cars are all Ukrainian).
Resume:
You definitely have a formal right to revert this changeset since it violates DWG statement.
BUT in this particular case of the Frunze Street your revertion will violate “on the ground principle”.
Unfortunately there are no panoramas of the other two streets in the changeset but I am pretty sure - they also have street name plates in Russian. I’m sure because I have browsed panoramas of main streets of that town searching for Ukranian language street name plate - and I couldn’t find such. All street names, all shops-cafe-hotels names, all advertising, everything that can be read - all are in Russian language, except the office of one Kiev based bank.
Yes, those panoramas are definetely at least one year old, the town hall is under Ukranian state flag (blue and yellow):
http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVvqUK3r
And I found first avertisment in Ukranian:
http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVvqUTZB
Actually this is an advertisment of Polish company http://www.pruszynski.com.pl/, not of something local,
but you can see an proper Ukranian address here: "вул. Ленiна, 31 "
You can turn the panorama left or right, everything else is in Russian. That is ground truth.
Mir76 Я в личной переписке писал pnorman`у что подавляющее большинство табличек в Крыму висят ещё со времён СССР. Не воспринял.
Ну DWG признало еще два года назад, что большинство табличек на русском. Плюс я еще конкретный пример привел с картинками. Надеюсь, что удастся договориться.