TomTom undiscussed mass removal of barrier=toll_booth

A Tomtom mapper has been removing barrier=toll_booth across the UK. I can find no discussion of this which is the primary issue.

Some are roads into car parks, others are barriers on paths where you tap your card to open the barrier, I can see no real difference here than a barrier for a car. The wiki is possibly a bit car centric.

In at least one case he added shop=ticket, which implies a shop with a person. There is no shop and this appears to be just a bodge.

I have blocked the mapper, initially a zero-hour block ascking him to stop editing in the UK however he immediately made another edit in the UK which has resulted in a longer block.

The tag in these situations may not be perfect but TomTom unilaterally removing these tags with no explanation is not ok.

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@KasiaaBaa for information

Are there any changeset discussions relating to this?

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I started these two discussions:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/187788029

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/187783384

but didn’t get anything concrete from the mapper before I timed out and reverted their changes.

I probably should have raised it to the DWG at that point but I was lazy, sorry.

(edit: fixed duplicated link, sorry)

At some changes in my mapping area, I got the impression TomTom doesn’t announce their mass edits, don’t document them on their group page, nor do they follow our tag documentation. It doesn’t really help either that neither the mapper nor their supervisor follows up on questions in a timely manner (assuming these people are actually paid to do this).

Thank you for raising these concerns.

First, we would like to acknowledge that the quality of a number of the edits in question did not meet the standards expected from organized editing activities. Following an internal review, we identified cases where barrier=toll_booth was removed without the feature being adequately represented with an alternative tag or retained where the available sources did not support a clear determination. Those edits are being reviewed and corrected, and we are conducting additional internal training and refresher activities with the editors involved to reinforce tagging practices, quality expectations, and escalation procedures. As I understand, Metauro was correcting some of their previous edits following a QC and failed to check the inbox to see the message requesting the pause in time.

Regarding the scope of the activity, the intent was not to remove valid barrier=toll_booth features from the map. The scope was limited to cases where the tag appeared to be used inconsistently with its documented meaning and where a different representation of the feature was considered more appropriate according to current wiki guidance. The task itself originated from internal feedback and was reviewed by local TomTom staff before execution. However, it is clear from the outcome that the activity did not consistently achieve the intended result.

We also acknowledge the concern regarding transparency. TomTom maintains a public overview of its organized editing activities on the OSM Wiki under the sections “Map Data Improvements” and “TomTom Map Feedback”: TomTom Organised Editing Activities

Because the content, geographic scope, and timing of individual projects vary substantially, these categories are used to describe the general types of activities undertaken rather than every individual task. Nevertheless, we recognize that a dedicated discussion with the UK community before starting this specific activity would likely have prevented much of the confusion and concern that followed. We will review our internal workflows to identify where additional community consultation and communication should be expected and to improve transparency around future organized editing activities. @pzachee will be initiating such discussions in the future.

We would also like to address the delays in responding to changeset comments. Initial acknowledgements were posted, but detailed investigation and review could only begin once the editor and project management team returned to work at the start of the week. While this explains part of the delay, we understand that timely communication is important, particularly when local contributors raise concerns about organized editing activities.

Finally, we appreciate the community members who took the time to review the edits, raise concerns, and provide feedback. OpenStreetMap depends on collaboration between local contributors and organized editing teams, and we recognize that maintaining trust requires both high-quality edits and transparent communication. We will use this incident as an opportunity to strengthen our processes in both areas.

Thank you for your patience and understanding while we complete the review and corrective actions.

Can - on behalf of TomTom’s OSM program.

@trigpoint if it would be agreeable to you too, we would like to request the lift of the user ban. Metauro would be reassigned different tasks, and will not continue their edits in the UK during this period.

Thank you for the response.

I have lifted the block.

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Can you provide a link to the page documenting this specific organized edit as well as the community consultation? The Organised Editing Guidelines require both. Were they not followed?

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With the above paragraph I believe I’ve already addressed the question.

Organised Editing/Activities/TomTom Map Feedback - OpenStreetMap Wiki and United Kingdom | Data Improvements · Issue #6 · tomtom-international/open-data states barriers under Edits Based on Map Feedback → Highways, however in a broader sense, since the content, geographic scope, and timing of individual projects vary substantially, as stated above in my response. And our internal workflows are being reviewed to improve on the notification and consultation phases in the future.

It actually includes the text “Adding or updating access barriers”.

How does that describe the organised edit that you wished to perform? What actual rules were you following and are they documented anywhere?

Did you discuss it with any OSM community?

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You have not. It’s not clear to me from your paragraph that TomTom has acknowledged it wasn’t following the organised editing guidelines.

The first link is to a page covering all TomTom organised editing. The second is a link to a github issue which then links to a number of announcements on talk-gb@, but it’s not clear that any of these announcements apply to toll booth edits. Please link to to the mailing list post or community forum post where you discussed the organised edit involving toll booths.

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That would be every case where you will possibly be making bulk edits, & then wait 14 days before doing anything!

Not acceptable! When another mapper asks a question of one of your team, it is expected that they will respond immediately!

& if it is concerning a problem, such as this, they are to cease mapping on that project immediately, until it is resolved.

“Immediately” is obviously not a reasonable standard, whether for individual or organized editors.

Responding on Monday to a changeset comment left on a Friday is not unreasonable.

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Hi All,

We’ve been reviewing both the editing activity and the feedback provided in this discussion. It is clear that there are concerns not only about individual edits, but also about the level of visibility and communication surrounding the project. While organized editing is not new for TomTom, it is clear that our communication approach did not meet the expectations of some members of the community in this case.

We are also reviewing the editing activity itself, including task design, editor guidance, and quality controls. Where mistakes have been made, we will address them. The goal is always to improve OpenStreetMap while respecting established community practices.

Rather than debating on individual projects, we are looking more broadly at how we can improve transparency and community engagement for organized editing activities going forward. This includes evaluating ways to provide better visibility into internal projects and creating discussions before large-scale editing efforts begin.

We appreciate the critical feedback, because it helps us improve both our processes and our communication with the wider OSM community. We look forward to the chance for a structed discussion with any member of the Data Working Group and the community. Several members of TomTom’s OSM team will be attending the State of the Map in Paris. We’d welcome the opportunity to chat face-to-face and discuss organized editing, transparency expectations, quality assurance practices, and how we can work together more effectively going forward.

We believe face-to-face conversations are often more productive than lengthy forum discussions and would value the chance to hear concerns and discuss improvements directly. We will post a follow up to this thread with the recap of those discussions.

Thank you

Can - on behalf of TomTom’s OSM program

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except cases when user mapped also on Saturday or Sunday

(BTW, if thing will go right then Notifications badge by pablobm · Pull Request #7316 · openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website · GitHub will help)

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