The long way to a single public transport schema

Discostu36 · 2022-11-11T10:45:12.275Z

For 11 years now, we have two concurring public transport schemes, one of them used de facto, the other one approved. I think this should finally be resolved. But what is the best way to do this?

My first idea would be to strictly separate the two schemes. For example, the tag highway=bus_stop should not be used on bus routes that use PTv2 scheme and vice-versa.

This could be the first step in the long way of deprecating PTv1.

What do you think?

EdLoach · 2022-11-11T10:57:36.435Z

You gain nothing by removing the tag, while potentially causing issues for data consumers. It does mean we are stuck with having both highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform on stop nodes that are part of a PT v2 bus route relation, but that surely isn’t an issue?

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-11-11T11:14:56.867Z

Discostu36:

This could be the first step in the long way of deprecating PTv1.

that assumes that it is desirable as given

Discostu36 · 2022-11-11T11:21:04.985Z

EdLoach:

It does mean we are stuck with having both highway=bus_stop and public_transport=platform on stop nodes that are part of a PT v2 bus route relation, but that surely isn’t an issue?

It at the latest becomes an issue when you want to map the platform as an area.

Mateusz_Konieczny:

that assumes that it is desirable as given

Yes, I assumed that it is not desirable to have two tagging schemes for the same topic. I can’t think of a reason why you’d like to have that. Would you rather deprecate PTv2?

I’ll write more thonight.

dieterdreist · 2022-11-11T11:24:11.000Z

My first idea would be to strictly separate the two schemes. For example, the tag highway=bus_stop should not be used on bus routes that use PTv2 scheme and vice-versa.

I don’t see a benefit, rather highway=bus_stop seems a useful tag and the other overengineered misleadingly named alternative should go away, regardless of PTv2 or not

lonvia · 2022-11-11T11:33:15.387Z

Instead of deprecating one or the other, I suggest to find a way to consolidate the two ways of mapping into one single schema. That has a much better chance of success and is what is de facto happening already.

For example, we could officially define highway=bus_stop to be a shortcut for public_transport=platform+bus=yes, railway=tramstop a shortcut for public_transport=stop_position+tram=yes etc.

The first step on the way would be to sit down and write up where the differences and the common parts of the two schemas are and where and how frequently the different forms of mapping are used - in mapping and by data users.

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-11-11T11:45:49.248Z

Discostu36:

Would you rather deprecate PTv2?

I definitely want to keep highway=bus_stop rather than tagging public_transport=platform bus=yes which requires two tags and is absurd for bus stops without any platform whatsoever.

That is extra-confusing as some people claim that highway=bus_stop was deprecated by approved PTv2 proposal, while it had NOT done this.

I definitely do not want to tag useless stopping position of bus that pointlessly duplicates info from highway=bus_stop position and ways in route relation.

Note

Missing tag for stop position causes extra preprocessing for routing software.

from the proposal

That is a monumental mistake. Asking humans to spend far more work on tagging bus stops to save preprocessing step is absurd.

Introducing public_transport=stop_position was massive mistake, ideally it would be rolled back.

To repeat: public_transport=stop_position can be derived in preprocessing from highway=bus_stop and roads in route relations. Mapping it manually is a massive waste of time. PTv2 caused people to pointlessly waste thousands hours, maybe far more on something that computer can generate from other data.