Tags denoting note status and note comments

Pedja · 2022-10-29T20:02:10.593Z

Već neko vreme se dogovaramo da sređujemo otvorene napomene (Notes) koje postoje u bazi jer ih ima mnogo i treba ih razrešiti da bi upotreba napomena imala smisla.

Jedna od metoda je da na napomenu koja nije zatvorena, ako nije moguće da se odmah razreši, ostavljamo komentare navodeći šta je problem, sa idejom da onaj ko je ostavio napomenu ili neko drugi, uskoči sa rešenjem.

Da bi to funkcionisalo neophodno je da uvedemo tagove u komentare, kako bi se po tim tagovima mogli pratiti statusi napomena.

Svrha tagova je primarno da omogući da se naprave alati koji će da prate statuse napomena i da omoguće njihovo brže i lakše razrešavanje. Ti alati će takođe moći i da omoguće lakše i preciznije i tačnije tagovanje.

Predlažem da ovde napravimo listu tagova sa objašnjenjima koje im je značenje i kako ih treba koristiti.

S obzirom da su napomene globalne, tagovi bi trebalo da budu na engleskom jeziku i za njih treba pripremiti objašnjenje na engleskom i srpskom jeziku. Ta lista bi, kada bude formriana mogla da bude stavljena na globalni OSM Wiki kao uputstvo svima kako da ih koriste.

Pored toga, planirano je da se naprave i apliakcije koje bi pratile napomene po statusima i olakšavala njihove razrešavanje.

Ovo je samo predlog kojim je otvorena je diskusija kojom se mogu predlagati i usvajati bilo kakve izmene.

Predlozi tagova	Usvojen tag	Opis (srpski)	Opis (engleski)	Status napomene
#added, #created		Napomena sadrži podatke za unošenje novog objekta u mapu. Objekat je unesen. Napomena se zatvara.	Note is used to create new object. Note is closed.	Zatvara se
#fixed, #updated		Podaci iz napomene su upotrebljeni i mapu je ažurirala osoba koja je i zatvorila napomenu. #fixed se koristi ako je ispravljena greska, a #updated ako je mapa dopunjena novim ili svežijim podacima. Napomena se zatvara.	Note is used to update data by the same person that is closing Note. #fixed is used if errori is corrected. #updated is used if data is updated with new or fresh information. Note is closed.	Zatvara se
#alreadyfixed, #alreadyupdated		Podaci iz napomene se već nalaze u bazi i nema potrebe da se ažurira. Napomena se zatvara.	Information form Note is already in database so there is no need for update. Note is closed.	Zatvara se
#needmoreinfo		Napomena ne sadrži dovoljno podataka da bi se mogla uneti izmena. Dopunite sa još podataka. Ukoliko to ne učinite, napomena će biti zatvorena bez izmena u bazi	Note does not contain enough information to allow updating data. Provide more details. If you do not respond, Note will be closed without updating data.	Očekuje se dopuna
#notenoughinfo		Napomena ne sadrži dovoljno podataka da bi se mogla uneti izmena. Čekanje na dopunu nema smisla ili je dopuna već ranije tražena (komentarom sa tagom #needmoreinfo ili #surveyneeded ili nekim sličnim) ali nije bilo odgovora. Napomena je zatvorena bez izmena u bazi.	Note does not contain enough information to allow updating data. There is no sense waiting for update or update already requested (with comment containing tag #needmoreinfo) was not responded to. Note is closed without updating data.	Zatvara se
#notonortophoto, #seemsnonexisting		Objekat se ne vidi na ortofoto snimcima, nemoguće je ucrtati ga. Napomena se može zatvoriti ako se ne očekuje da j emoguće ostvariti neki napredak.	Object cannot be seen on ortophoto so it cannot be entered properly. Napomena se može zatvoriti ako se ne očekuje da je moguće ostvariti neki napredak.	Zavisi
#inacurratelocation		Lokacija nije precizna, ne može se tačno odrediti gde se objwkat nalazi ili na koji objekat se napomena odnosi. Od vas se očekuje da dostavite preciznu lokaciju. Ako to nw učinite napomena će biti obrisana bez izmena u podacima.	Location is not precise, cannot determine where object is or to which object note is related to. You are expected to provide precise location. If you do not respond, Note will be closed with no update on data.	Očekuje se dopuna
#surveyneeded, #needonthegroundconfirmation, #surveyme		Podaci u napomeni nisu dovoljni. Nejasnoće se mogu rešiti samo direktnim fizičkim odlaskom na lokaciju. Očekuje se da neko to uradi.	Note is not precise or clear. Clarification is possible only by physical visit and surveying of the location. Someone is expected to do it.	Očekuje se dopuna
#needconfirmation		Postoji sumnja da su podaci u napomeni netačni ili da su zastareli. Očekuje se da neko potvrdi tačnost.	There is possibility that Note is not accurate or up to date. Someone is expected to confirm validity.	Očekuje se dopuna
#willdosurvey, #volonteeeringforsurvey, #applyingforsurvey		Ovaj tag se koristi u komentaru osobe koja se javlja dobrovoljno da proveri podatke na terenu.	This tag is used in comment by one volonteers to do needed survey.	Očekuje se dopuna
#notetoself		Ovu napomenu je korisnik nameni sebi, da kasnije uradi ažuriranje. Drugi ne bi trebalo da ažuriraju podatke na osnovu ove napomene. Korisnik će je sam zatvoriti kada uradi izmene.	This note is created by user meant to be used later by himself. Others should ignore this note. User will close note when he finishes updating data.	Očekuje se zatvaranje
#fixnotetoself		Ako je napomena označena tagom #notetoself ali stoji nerazrešena dugo (15 dana ili više) onda se ovim komentarom u tagu podseća korisnik da treba da razreši tu napomenu. Ako ni u sledećih 15 dana napomena ne bude razrešena, tada bilo ko drugi može da tu napomenu tretira kao i svaku drugu (upotrebi podatke iz napomene da unese izmene u mapi, da zatvori napomenu bez izmena podataka ili da ostavi komentar tražeći dodatne informacije, itd.)	If Note is marked using tag #notetoself but is not resolved within 15 days, then user may be reminded using this tag to resolve Note. If note is not resolved within another 15 days, then anyone can treat use Note as avarz other Note (to update data, close note without updating data, aks more info or so).	Očekuje se dopuna
#tooold		Napomena je starija od 12 godina a nije razrešena. Više nije sigurno da su podaci aktuelni. Napomena se zatvara bez izmena u podacima.	Note is older than 12 years and unresolved. It is not certain that information is valid. Note is closed with no data update.	Zatvara se
#doityourself		Kada neko unese napomenu, naročito ako je nepotpuna, od njega se očekuje da unese i izmene u mapu, jer je on izvor podataka, osim u slučaju da izjavi da ne ume da unese potrebne izmene. Ovo se ne odnosi na napomene koje su uneli anonimni korisnici.	When one enters note, especialy if it is not clear, he is expected to resolve that note by himself as he is the source of information unless he declare that he do not know how to enteer that specific update. This is not applicable to Notes provided by anonymous users.	Očekuje se dopuna
#irrelevant		Napomena ne sadrži nikakve podatke koji su značajni i upotrebljivi za ažuriranje mape	Note contains inforamtion that is not useful or irrelevant for updating map.	Zatvara se
#shouldstayopen		Ako se reaktivira napomena, treba staviti ovaj tag i objasniti zašto treba da ostane otvoreno	If Note is reopened put this in a comment along with explanation why it should stay opened.	Ostaje otvoreno

Važno: Napomene imaju različit tretman zavisno od toga da li ih je ostavio ulogovan ili anonimni korisnik. Ulogovani korisnik će dobiti obaveštenje o komentaru na napomenu i na nju može da reaguje id o nejga treba s pravom očekivati da reaguje. Takoće je moguće napraviti servis koji će ovakve korisnike da podseća da su uneli napomene koje stoje otvorene, s pretpsotavkom da ako su ih uneli treba i da se postaraju da ti podaci budu uneseni na mapu.

Anonimni korisnik ne može da vidi komentare. Stoga, mnoge napomene anonimnih korisnika koje su nepotpune u stvari mogu odmah da se zatvaraju jer nije shodno očekivati da će osoba koja je ostavila takvu napomenu uopšte reagovati na upit za dopunu. Ipak ako se može očekivati da neko drugi može da dopuni podatke iz napomene, onda je treba ostaviti otvorenom.

Tag u komentaru služi da na jednoobrazan način obeležavamo uobičajene statuse. Dobro je pored taga upisati i tekst ako ima potrebe da se pojasni situacija. Na primer ako stavite tag #needmoreinfo, dodajte u tekstu komentara i objašnjenje šta od podataka nedostaje.

Branko_Kokanovic · 2022-10-29T20:14:19.044Z

Huh, konačno lepa lista koju mogu da pogledam kada rešavam beleške. Hvala Peđa! Evo mojih par komentara, ali svi su manje bitni:

#notonortophoto - ne razumem ovo baš na osnovu opisa. Deluje mi da ne može da stoji sam po sebi, nego da treba da ide kao dopuna nekom drugom, npr. #surveyneeded. Jel dobro razumem?
#willdosurvey - malo mi je nezgrapno ime. Ko ga prvi put vidi, možda ga neže razumeti. Možda nešto tipa #volonteeeringforsurvey ili #applyingforsurvey ili tako nešto
opšte pitanje - jel se za hashtagove koristi donja crtica? Možda sam ja mator, ali čitljivije mi je #need_on_the_ground_confirmation nego #needonthegroundconfirmation
#toold je greška u kucanju, verovatno hoćemo #tooold
opšti komentar - možda do dodaš još jednu kolonu tipa “srodni hashtag” gde komentarišeš koji hashtag se kombinuje sa datim hashtagom dobro
baci ovo na neki zgodan wiki link. Možda čak i sa engleskim kao prvim jezikom, jer deluje da može da bude dobra preporuka bilo kome

Pedja · 2022-10-29T20:26:24.911Z

#notonortophoto - ne razumem ovo baš na osnovu opisa. Deluje mi da ne može da stoji sam po sebi, nego da treba da ide kao dopuna nekom drugom, npr. #surveyneeded. Jel dobro razumem?

Ima smisla da se nekad upotrebi više tagova da se bolje opiše problem.

#notonortophoto može da znači da je očigledno da je Note netačan (na datoj lokaciji nije to što piše u Note-u) pa time može i odmah da se zatvori, a može da bude da se ne vidi dobro na snimcima ili da je moguće da snimci nisu ažurni pa da je potrebno proveriti ili potvrditi podatke na neki drugi način.

#willdosurvey - malo mi je nezgrapno ime. Ko ga prvi put vidi, možda ga neže razumeti. Možda nešto tipa #volonteeeringforsurvey ili #applyingforsurvey ili tako nešto

To je stvar dogovora, ubaciću i ove tvoje predloge u tabelu. Pretpostavljam da su kraći tagovi bolji. Mni se više sviđa #willdosurvey jer je isključivo i samoobavezujuće. Ovo drugo je kao ja se javljam, al ako mi niko ne potvrdi onda ništa.

opšte pitanje - jel se za hashtagove koristi donja crtica? Možda sam ja mator, ali čitljivije mi je #need_on_the_ground_confirmation nego #needonthegroundconfirmation

E to zavisi od servisa do servisa. Najsigurnije je da nema ni znakova razmaka ni crtica ni podvlaka. Treba proveriti šta će da bude funkcionalno pa ako može da se dodaje podvlaka, što da ne. Mada je interpunkcija često problem kad se petlja sa promenama jezika na tastaturi - pomera se sa tastera na taster. Ja ioz navike ne pravim razmake između reci u tagovima jer je to univerzalno - svugde ce da radi.

#toold je greška u kucanju, verovatno hoćemo #tooold

Da, greška

opšti komentar - možda do dodaš još jednu kolonu tipa “srodni hashtag” gde komentarišeš koji hashtag se kombinuje sa datim hashtagom dobro

To bi bilo korisno nego se bojim da će postati nepregledno, jer je prostor i mogućnost formatiranja prilično ograničena.

baci ovo na neki zgodan wiki link. Možda čak i sa engleskim kao prvim jezikom, jer deluje da može da bude dobra preporuka bilo kome

Prerano je za Wiki. Kad ovde to prodiskutujemo i napravimo neki konačan rezultat onda svakako treba da ide na Wiki i to naravno primarno na engleskom a mi ćemo odmah imati i naš prevod.

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T08:17:50.927Z

Pedja:

Note is older than one year and unresolved. It is not certain that information is valid. Note is closed with no data update.

That is not really valid. If note is plausible and reports problem with OSM data then it should stay open until fixed, not just closed for sake of closing note and improving statistics.

Though I would be fine with closing onosm.org notes and say “bench is not mapped here” type of note.

But what is the benefit of closing plausible “this shop is not existing anymore” report? Especially in neglected area?

Pedja · 2022-10-30T10:21:32.788Z

That is why we are introducing Note statuses. When Note is closed there should be assigned status that explains reason. Note is not deleted and may be reactivated any time.

If note is open for a long time and no one reacted, including person who posted note, that it is clear indication that note is obsolete. Information in such Note even may be outdated and there is no one to check.

We are planing to make application that would allow reviewing notes (including closed ones), but which is sensitive to these statuses. There actually is at least one application existing for such purpose (OpenStreetMap (OSM) notes ("add a note"-feature) for Serbia @ ResultMaps.neis-one.org) except it does not follow statuses. We want to make improvement in that course. Final goal is to allow easier and quicker resolving notes.

And of course there is no intention to close notes just because they are old, that is just one criteria. If there is reasonable shred of possibility that Note could be actually used to update map, it should not be closed.

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T11:11:55.397Z

Pedja:

If note is open for a long time and no one reacted, including person who posted note, that it is clear indication that note is obsolete. Information in such Note even may be outdated and there is no one to check.

that is not true

I encountered while travelling notes that were very old (many older than one year) and they helped me to detect issues.

It is entirely OK to mark notes with such hashtag and skip it from some custom tools: but please do not close them.

That breaks other tools like StreetComplete and overall breaks note system just to improve statistics.

Closing all notes older than one year just because they are old is a very wrong move (basically horrible stalebot imported from Github into OSM)

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T11:14:42.372Z

Pedja:

If there is reasonable shred of possibility that Note could be actually used to update map, it should not be closed.

That makes sense!

But it is missing from “Note is older than one year and unresolved. It is not certain that information is valid. Note is closed with no data update.” criteria.

For example would you close “this amenity=shelter is not existing anymore” note older than one year? It is not certain that information is valid, it is not resolved, older than one year.

But still useful as it makes mapper far more likely to actually check specific shelter.

Pedja · 2022-10-30T12:03:40.754Z

Mateusz_Konieczny:

Closing all notes older than one year just because they are old is a very wrong move (basically horrible stalebot imported from Github into OSM)

One year is just proposal. It is yet to be determined. We have lots of unresolved Notes that are seven or more years old.

Line has to be drawn. It is not about statistics, but about dealing over and over with things that cannot be resolved. When you open ID editor and turn showing Notes on, you cannot distinguish new Notes from those old unresolvable ones. We find it practical to close such notes with appropriate tags so those can be dealt in different way.

Our hope is that this tagging system will be recognized by tools like StreetComplete. It is just matter of option to filter Notes by tags.

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T13:00:02.244Z

Pedja:

It is not about statistics, but about dealing over and over with things that cannot be resolved.

Yes, large part of editing cannot be done remotely. But it is not a valid reason for closing notes.

#cannot_be_solved_remotely or similar may be an useful note status that would exclude them from listing for armchair mappers.

But please, do not close notes solely because they are not solvable with remote mapping.

Pedja:

When you open ID editor and turn showing Notes on, you cannot distinguish new Notes from those old unresolvable ones

this may be worth reporting at GitHub - openstreetmap/iD: 🆔 The easy-to-use OpenStreetMap editor in JavaScript.

Pedja:

Our hope is that this tagging system will be recognized by tools like StreetComplete. It is just matter of option to filter Notes by tags.

not really - how exactly you would filter for “actually open” notes?
that is a really bad workaround for problems that should be properly fixed. Have you attempted to actually fix them without breaking open/closed status? For example reporting problem to iD developers, special status to exclude open notes from listing for armchair mappers and so on.
as StreetComplete developer I strongly oppose closing notes and putting text on them to declare them actually open. That is a bad workaround for problems that should be properly fixed.

Pedja:

We have lots of unresolved Notes that are seven or more years old.

Why exactly it is problem?

It is perfectly fine to have 20 year old notes requiring local survey if someone was not able to survey given location for 20 years.

For example closing “this amenity=shelter is not existing anymore” note older than one year just because it is old and not fixable remotely is harmful and will not help with anything.

Pedja · 2022-10-30T13:52:42.263Z

Mateusz_Konieczny:

#cannot_be_solved_remotely or similar may be an useful note status that would exclude them from listing for armchair mappers.

I actually agree with you. If we have tools that are sensible to proposed statuses we would not need to close Notes except in to two cases: 1) it is resolved; 2) it is irrelevant to mapping. Every other situation could be handled by statuses.

But we do not have such tools yet.

As StreetComplete developer you could actually help us make this work. Our plan is to create web application that would deal solely with Notes, allowing filtering so one can easily find Notes he can resolve. I would advocate that we do reduce closing Notes to ones where it is obvious that is should be closed.

It would be much better that applications like StreetComplete could use this tagging schema to help people who are on the ground to find nearby nodes that needs to be resolved, and especially those tagged as on the ground observation is needed. If you adopt and help us develop this tagging scheme, that may produce great result and also lead others to follow and implement it in their tools.

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T14:05:55.391Z

Pedja:

But we do not have such tools yet.

Then I think that it is much better to implement tool that lists only notes without #cannot_be_solved_remotely that would be used by armchair mappers.

Especially NotesReview seems relatively easy to adapt (see Add a possibility to exclude notes with specific keywords · Issue #58 · ENT8R/NotesReview · GitHub - note that you can upvote it, I just did it).

Making custom lister of notes that would regularly update is also relatively easy.

But closing notes, tag it with equivalent of #actually_open and expect everyone else to support this is not going to work well.

Why OSM API, JOSM, iD, StreetComplete, Pascal tool lister and every single other tool processing notes should be changed instead?

How such note would be even marked as closed if open/closed status is turned into “is it of interest for remote mappers”?

Pedja:

As StreetComplete developer you could actually help us make this work.

StreetComplete should be currently working fine, right? Or is there something that would make it easier to process on-the-ground notes?

Branko_Kokanovic · 2022-10-30T14:56:13.383Z

If I may chime in too. I don’t think you too are in disagreement. What Pedja is proposing here is a set of “recommended” hashtags for notes and their recommended usages. Note that “1 year” should be read as an example that some community may adopt. After we can agree on set of common hashtags and there is advanced tooling around this (either new app for note managament, existing one like NotesReview, or integration with other mapping apps like StreetComplete), every community can define/redefine what some of these tags mean for them (and only for them). For example, I really, really doubt that Chile’s community (with 100% of closed notes) are adhering to “every note is precious”, but - this is completely OK - if Chileans all agreed to that approach, why not. In your particular case, I doubt anyone would close note for possible missing shelter. But I am first one to gladly remove note that says “alfadent” that is 6 years old as I doubt POI (probably some dental?) could survive that long and whomever will map there would map this unmapped area will get to “alfadent” too.

So, @Mateusz_Konieczny - think of this as a proposal to define set of useful tags (and what hashtags different communities might want). Once we have those, each community may define different filter (if less than 5 years AND NOT #doityourself AND #surveyneeded - keep it open) and different rules, and other mapping software like StreetComplete might utilize these hashtags (when adding note, add checkbox “Personal note” that adds “#notetoself” (I am just making this up now).

Of course, there is no app yet and we plan to start using this locally (we already are dealing with notes for couple of months now, as already posted graph here can tell) and if it works for us, we might propose it further!

Mateusz_Konieczny · 2022-10-30T15:54:24.497Z

Branko_Kokanovic:

For example, I really, really doubt that Chile’s community (with 100% of closed notes) are adhering to “every note is precious”

From what I remember they (or some other SA country) make an opposite mistake: assume that all notes are fully correct and are from source not problematic in any way, and edit without verifying anonymous notes.

Branko_Kokanovic:

I doubt anyone would close note for possible missing shelter. But I am first one to gladly remove note that says “alfadent” that is 6 years old as I doubt POI (probably some dental?) could survive that long and whomever will map there would map this unmapped area will get to “alfadent” too.

In that case I fully agree, I also closed many notes that were not worth it. But it seems that it was formulated in much stronger way, maybe I misinterpreted it.

Matija_Nalis · 2022-11-01T19:47:11.246Z

Pedja:

#surveyneeded, #needonthegroundconfirmation || Podaci u napomeni nisu dovoljni. Nejasnoće se mogu rešiti samo direktnim fizičkim odlaskom na lokaciju. Očekuje se da neko to uradi.

Predlažem da se koristi već postojeći #surveyme hashtag za tu svrhu koji je podržan i u drugim alatima; pogledati npr. ovaj komentar i linkove.

Pedja · 2022-11-02T06:59:15.762Z

Dodato je #surveyme u tabelu

AngocA · 2023-03-01T15:20:44.865Z

I have discovered this thread, which is very interesting. However, the text was originally in Serbian, and I had to translate it into English to understand it. I hope I don’t miss any important parts because I used an automatic translator.

I am part of the note solvers in LatAm, where we take care of notes and apply many changes to the map. We want only recently opened notes, which have fresh information, and the users remember the area in case of more information. This reduces the need for very old texts, which could be irrelevant now.

I have created my list of hashtags based on yours and given extra content: https://wiki-openstreetmap-org.translate.goog/wiki/ES:LatAm/Proyectos/Resolución_de_notas/hastags?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp#Lista_de_hashtags_de_estados_para_notas.

The text is in Spanish, but the purpose is to share it with the LatAm community, which is actively working on notes as a region - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ES:LatAm/Proyectos/Resolución_de_notas/hastags#Lista_de_hashtags_de_estados_para_notas.

Sabering · 2023-03-01T20:45:49.813Z

Very cool frend!

daganzdaanda · 2023-03-16T19:58:05.922Z

Having an agreed upon set of hashtags for notes looks like a very good idea! Thanks for working on this!

I also agree that it should be “backwards compatible”, don’t close a note and add a hashtag for possible future re-opening. It should be left open and get useful hashtags, so that maps, editors and apps could filter it out if it’s not interesting to the user at the moment.

Of course editors / apps need to be aware of the hashtags that will be used, and they need to be able to do the filtering. I don’t know how hard this would be for ID or JOSM or StreetComplete or NotesReview or even the Notes layer on the main map, but we should push for them to look into the possibility of adding support.

Pedja · 2023-03-17T07:27:52.586Z

I agree, once we have good tools that follow tagging scheme, closing note would be the least needed option.

kmpoppe · 2023-04-15T11:10:44.934Z

I will implement a tag & comment function in my JOSM plugin noteSolver using this, slightly rephrased, list of comments: Select hashtag for closing notes · Issue #26 · kmpoppe/noteSolver · GitHub

K