Tagging of barbers (barbershops)

This was my general feeling too but it does make it tricky for the barber and hairdresser operating in one premises. Perhaps separate POI tagging is the solution for this?

Can we please keep mapping simple and practical? This is what I would expect as a user and contributor of a map. If we applied identity politics to the profession of haircutting we might need a whole range of tags for it. Are we supposed to ask hair cutters what they identify with, themselves and their customers? We all really have more important things to do than reading long lists of explanations of a woke haircutting exercise. A clear NO to the proposal from my side. Keep things makeable.

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The initial idea is to make it simple and clear when somewhere is a barbers, rather than a hairdressers. Presumably, explicit tagging for POIs falls within your definition of “simple and practical”?

As for the rest of your post… there has been some discussion about tagging the specialism of a particular barbers or hairdressers. Nothing “woke” about that. We do similar all the time in OSM.

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Do you have examples of businesses that advertise themselves as dual-purpose barber + hairdresser POIs? I always see them separated.

I think maybe @Mateusz_Konieczny or @SK53 might be able to (they raised/said they’d seen them)?

In Germany (and possibly elsewhere) it’s really, really common for a “Friseur” (hairdresser) to say in the shop window what kind of customers they serve (men, women, children…), like for example here (Damen = ladies, Herren = gentlemen). We can tag this with male and female and there’s also a StreetComplete quest that asks people about this. That’s simple and practical.

As an aside, if the Wiki says male=yes is a legal access restriction, it’s not documenting how the tag is actually used. For example the StreetComplete quest asks “which customers visit this hairdresser?” You can answer men, women, anyone, and not signed. If you answer “men” it sets male=yes. Nothing about women being forbidden to enter.

In the UK (and possibly elsewhere) it’s different. There are barbershops and there are hairdressers, and I would consider them different shop types. Have a look at StreetView here. Hairdresser on the left, barber on the right. The two are easy to tell apart, the barber shop says “barber” and has a little striped pole. The hairdresser says “hairdressing” and has a pair of scissors in their logo. They are clearly distinguishable from the outside.

Notice how neither shop says anything about the gender of the customers they serve. This cannot be seen from outside, you’d have to go in, ask for a haircut and see if you get turned away, and even then you’d only know about your own gender. If you’re a women walking into a barbershop it probably depends on the kind of haircut you ask for too.

That’s not simple and practical. If I use the StreetComplete quest in the UK, I have to answer “not signed” everywhere, and it’ll set male:signed=no and female:signed=no on every hairdresser and barber I walk past. That’s not really helpful.

If you want to keep it simple and practical, you need different tags for hairdressers and barbers. This is nothing to do with identity politics. I’m fine with shop=hairdresser/barber, I’m also fine with shop=hairdresser for both and hairdresser=barbershop/salon.

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Here’s an example in Germany. (There are some barbershops in Germany now, and often they’ll use the English word because it sounds modern. I don’t think they existed in the 1990s.)

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TY @osmuser63783

Maybe shop=hairdresser + barbershop=yes / barbershop=yes_but_its_the_combi_type (idk what to call those)

no, that was theoretical case for me (but I have seen very similar arrangements with beauty salon / hairdresser / spa etc at various level of connectivity)

I can think of at least one (although it changed somewhat recently) - male was downstairs, female was upstairs. Both listed under the same shop name.

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The term Unisex is used by hairdressers who cut both mens hair and
style Womens hair.

They have been around for decades, I go to one and have not been to an
actual barbers for a lot of years.

There have always been barber shops but there does seem to have been a
big increase in the number of them in recent years. Particularly
Turkish barbers in the UK. Not sure if there is any connection with the
recent proliferation of beards.

an inclusive barber shop example


That… Looks just like a normal hairdresser to me. The owner being queer is just marketing, but the product remains the same.

Hi all,

Since all has gone quiet, I guess most people have said what they wanted to say. To see if we can push this forward, I’m going to try and see if there’s any consensus, via a poll.

  • shop=barber
  • hairdresser=barber
  • barber=yes/no/only
  • status quo
  • other (please specify with comment)
0 voters
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I would like to see an idea for a tag for the combi type of barber + regular hairdresser which ideally is not barber=yes/only.
Unfortunately I haven’t come up with a good idea myself, but it would still nice to have this figured out before we move on, so we can avoid ambiguity later down the line.

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I think hairdresser=salon;barber had been proposed earlier in the thread. Seems reasonable to me…I didn’t re-read the entire thread though, maybe objections were raised to this approach?

I do agree it’d be nice to cover this case. I saw an example of it in Sydney just a couple of days ago! It was a single shop with one name, but internally divided into “ladies & gents” sections. The “gents” part looked like a barbershop, complete with :barber:

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Poll now closed. Not a huge turn out but the consensus (58%, 7 out 12) was for hairdresser=barber. I’ll work on a RFC and leave the topic of how we might tag split function hairdressers (e.g., hairdresser=barber;salon or something like that) as a question in the RFC.

ETA: RFC now posted.

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