I agree - additional input from the people who actually rely on this data is most welcome!
I asked the author of WalkersGuide, an OSM-based navigation app for the blind/visually impaired. He is from Dresden, knows these situations and recommends using tactile_paving=primitive.
His explanation is:
On the one hand, the sett surface indicates that there is a crossing here. On the other hand, the use of no would be confusing if paving stones suddenly appear which local people can identify as tactile guidelines.
Of course, there is a certain bias here as a Dresden resident if you are familiar with these conditions. For visitors from different areas, this might be a little unexpected, but on the other hand, the value primitive is perhaps enough to indicate that a special situation is to be expected here.
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iD automatically lists this value because taginfo says it appears enough times in the database – mostly on bus stops in Giessen. I think this usage differs from what we’re discussing in this thread.
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Well, it would help if it was know exactly what they were asked, in addition to what they replied. It is not clear if the following were considered:
-
in OSM, surface change is indicated by
surfacetag, e.g. certain part of the sidewalk issurface=asphaltand then another part might besurface=paving_stones. That would indicate to the data consumer that surface changes, and in much more detailed way than meretactile_paving=primitive.
There are also other useful keys separate fromtactile_pavingthat might be useful as they carry much more information thantactile_paving=primitive(e.g. railway=tram_crossing ) -
I don’t see in answer that ambiguous meaning of
primitivewas considered, e.g. that it can also mean “A kerb cut with divots in the concrete to prevent pedestrians from slipping”, or “water drain” (which is also separately mapped in more detail like inlet=grate, or possibly many other things (esp. as previous version of the wiki stated). -
it is also possible that there is no
tactile_pavingkey present at all (to avoid confusion whennomight be confusing andyesis incorrect, which is valid alternative toprimitive
Thanks for inquiring and for linking to that FOSS project; I’ll be sure to try it out and see how it handles tactile_paving=primitive compared to yes/no!
Yes, I decided to use tactile_paving=primitive + tactile_paving:surface=sett to indicate a change in the surface. This should be enough information to describe the on the ground situation.
Sounds like a reasonable enough solution to me. I’ve created basic prefix page for the tactile_paving:*=*; feel free to improve on it (add new used values, document existing ones).
@scai Have you perhaps contacted the author of WalkersGuide with your solution; are/will they use tactile_paving:surface=* ? (I’d also suggest that TTS reading of tactile_paving:description=* if present, if they aren’t doing it already).
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Great!
I suggest to add tactile_paving=cobblestone since the ID editor suggests it and it seems to be widely used in the town of Gießen.
If usage is discouraged, then it might be good to mention it as well with a note that it is discouraged and could be changed to tactile_paving=... and tactile_paving:surface=cobblestone.
Regards!
It is defined as a simple boolean yes/no in id-tagging-schema. However, iD will (in raw tag editor section) offer (almost) anything that already exists in database, thus it will also list that value.
If you live in or visit Gießen, you could visit them and replace the values with tactile_paving:surface=cobblestone if that is what they are.
(One could also replace them without physical survey, but such mechanical edits require following special code of conduct which is probably more work for just 200-ish entries).
Ok, I’ve noted some less popular values and their possible replacements on the wiki. Feel free to add more, especially if you know how some values was used / what it is mean for.
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In addition, there are other features tactile pavings can have sich as colour (often times white for the contrast but they can also be yellow and even dark gray at times) which is why separating the surface from the mere existence might be better to reduce ambiguity.
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yes, tactile_paving:color=* (and few others tags) are mentioned at prefix tactile_paving:* wiki.
Feel free to add/update some if missing, especially if you know how are they being used (e.g. you’re the one tagging them) and documentation is lacking (or let me know and I can add it if you feel wiki is too complicated – it is not really).
thx for that page,
I wonder tho, what is tactile_paving:segregated supposed to mean ya think?
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/tactile_paving%3Asegregated#overview
It’s used on whole 49 points worldwide as I understand xD
But can’t figure out to see where exactly to unserstand context maybe.
What i’m interested with is use of something like this on footways or one lined segregated=yes foot/cycleway path.
Around here it’s often marked on the side of the footway to signal that right after it there is a cycleway.
But there are other examples with railway/tram/bus platforms so the blind know the tactiles are on the edge they should keep off.
Would this tag be good for such tactiles description? because the default location is in the middle and this should be described somehow, that this one is not.
Good question, I don’t know. 
yeah, but those are tagged with regular segregated=yes IMHO?
Hmmm, dunno.
If you have some time, perhaps looking at street level imagery (or good aerials) on those locations might reveal some hints?
And/or try commenting on those changesets like 52660692 so mapper can perhaps better explain what the meant with those ATYL tags? (it was years ago, but that mapper at least mapper still seems quite active, so they might respond)
Thx for the querry search.
those tags were all used on crossings, which has tactiles lined up along kerb, which is kind of a separation…
not even very precise, but i gues 8 years ago aerials were not so nice ;]
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5173216951/history
But the separation i’m looking for is for ways, so I gues gotta come up with a new tag…
As for that, well, there are two ways to map it, two-lining or one-lining and in that case segraged=yes tag should be used.
When doing two-line mapping, the primary reason is to map tactiles on the footway, so the geometry reflect it’s actual position and continuity (or its lack).
When tactiles are positioned on a side of the footway/platform/kerb this is an intication to not walk over em coz it’s a risk of falling to a street/railroads/over-the-kerb and so this requires a different mapping to the standard tactiles.
So yeah, looking for a tag for that
Nice, thanks!
Yes, I did but didn’t receive a reply so far.
(Now we continuously treated/abused this Q&A topic as a regular forum topic. Maybe it is time to convert it to such one?)
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