Street Numbers in OSM Maps??

[TJNoffy]

I’m new to OSM. Have been looking for a way to get current maps for my older Garmin Quest (for my Harley) since they stopped providing maps for it in the right format after the 2009 map set.

I did get a set of routable maps (tiles) downloaded for my area of the US from garmin.openstreetmap.nl. Installed them and finally figured out how to see them in MapSource (View\Switch to Product menu item). At this point I’m assuming I would be able to upload them to my Quest, but…

Now I’m noticing a lack of street numbers on maps. I tried using MapSource to find my address in fairly rural Virginia, my mom’s address in the heavily populated Washington, DC area, and even 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in DC (the White House). No go. Streets in general were found, but not street numbers.

So, is this the norm for OSM maps, maybe because they’re still maturing and waiting for volunteers to provide street number data? Or did I not download the right format of map? Maybe I need another data file from the site to add street numbers to these maps?

In any event, it’s great that the maps are routable, but if I can’t find specific addresses, I’m not sure what use they will be in my Quest when trying to get from point A to point B. I’m sure I could add POI’s for the places I know I go to, but what if I get an address for someplace I’ve never been while I’m out riding?

Thanks for any advice you can give!

[MHohmann (Manuel)]

At least the full address is in the OSM data:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/42341427

But I don’t know how much of this data is used in the Garmin map you downloaded.

[Beddhist (Peter Hendricks)]

Try searching for the addresses in OSM. The White House, as above, can only be found by entering 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NowrthWest.

With the exception of a few countries, where address databases have been imported there aren’t many house numbers in OSM yet.

You can help by putting them in!

[TJNoffy]

Thank you for your replies. Interestingly, when I search for my address on the www.openstreetmap.org site, as suggested, the street number is found and my home’s location is accurate. So, that tells me that there is street number data in the OSM maps that isn’t in the Garmin maps I downloaded, or that is not recognized by MapSource. There’s hope that this will work after all!

But, again, when searching for my address (and others) in MapSource using the map I downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl, it simply finds the street, and doesn’t seem to know the street numbers.

So, I guess I have a couple of questions…

Is the map data downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl the same data as found on www.openstreetmap.org?

Is there a reason why the street number data might not exist in the Generic Routable Garmin maps I downloaded? Something about the conversion process to the Garmin format?

Should I download and convert OSM maps from www.openstreetmap.org or other sites with country/area maps and convert them myself? If so, what tool would I need to convert maps to the older format that my Quest uses? And by the way, what is that older format called? Newer Garmins use the NT format??

I do see a non-existent street for my neighborhood on the OSM maps. Also, the street number for my place of work isn’t recognized, although the street is. I’m glad to provide corrected information for those and anything else I come across. Can you point me in the right direction for doing that? I have an Android phone with GPS, so I suppose with the right app I could record geo data and submit it.

Thanks again!

[Beddhist (Peter Hendricks)]

Hi TJ,

According to this topic the address search should work. Please post there if it doesn’t work for you, but do provide some specific addresses that you can find on OSM itself.

From what I have read there it seems possible that the searching may not work on ‘custom maps’, as opposed to pre-defined country sets. Lambertus needs to know the details, so again, please post in that topic.

Is the map data downloaded from garmin.openstreetmap.nl the same data as found on www.openstreetmap.org?

OSM data is used to compile the Garmin maps. It’s obviously not the same in the sense that it’s in a different format and a lot of information is not carried over, but OSM is the only data source. So, in a sense, they are the same.

Should I download and convert OSM maps from www.openstreetmap.org or other sites with country/area maps and convert them myself?

I don’t know what ‘other sites’ you have in mind… If you convert from OSM then you will need to use the same tools that Lambertus uses in his service and you will have the same problems. Having said that, once it is set up compiling small maps is easy, but it is fiddly to get there and you will have to keep updating your tools, in effect re-inventing the wheel. I suggest you use Lambertus’ service and help him and the community to perfect it, then everybody wins.

And by the way, what is that older format called? Newer Garmins use the NT format??

I have seen the older format called ‘cgpsmapper format’, from the name of the compiler program used to create them. I call them non-NT maps. NT (= New Technology, as in Windows NT, but no relation) is Garmin’s closely guarded secret and to the best of my knowledge the encryption hasn’t been cracked yet. There are almost no free NT maps around. The only ones I’m aware of are Malsingmaps.com and Navigasi.net.

I do see a non-existent street for my neighborhood on the OSM maps.

This is invaluable info. Please display it in OSM, start the Potlatch editor and delete it.

As for adding house numbers, I’m assuming that you haven’t done any editing in OSM yet. There is a bit of a learning curve involved, so may I suggest that you team up with an experienced OSM member, possibly in your area, to get started. You could ask in the US forum.

I have found the GPS in my Samsung Galaxy next to useless and since you have a Quest I suggest you use that for data logging instead. Unless the GPS in your phone is better you will get track logs with higher accuracy from your GPSr.

Regards,
Peter.

[TJNoffy]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your obviously very knowledgeable response.

According to this topic the address search should work. Please post there if it doesn’t work for you, but do provide some specific addresses that you can find on OSM itself.

From what I have read there it seems possible that the searching may not work on ‘custom maps’, as opposed to pre-defined country sets. Lambertus needs to know the details, so again, please post in that topic.

I will definitely take this information to Lambertus in that forum.

OSM data is used to compile the Garmin maps. It’s obviously not the same in the sense that it’s in a different format and a lot of information is not carried over, but OSM is the only data source. So, in a sense, they are the same.

Yes, OK. Just wanted to be sure it had the same root source for data. Maybe the house number data isn’t carried over in the process I’m using (OSM → Lambertus Garmin extracts → MapSource).

I don’t know what ‘other sites’ you have in mind… If you convert from OSM then you will need to use the same tools that Lambertus uses in his service and you will have the same problems. Having said that, once it is set up compiling small maps is easy, but it is fiddly to get there and you will have to keep updating your tools, in effect re-inventing the wheel. I suggest you use Lambertus’ service and help him and the community to perfect it, then everybody wins.

The other sites I’m referring to are those linked to from the OSM download page (http://planet.openstreetmap.org/), then the Extracts & Mirrors link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm#Downloading. My thought was to download extracts of the maps I need from one of the sources listed there and convert them myself, but it sounds like that might be time-consuming with a substantial learning curve. Again, I’ll share my experience with Lambertus and see what he says.

I have seen the older format called ‘cgpsmapper format’, from the name of the compiler program used to create them. I call them non-NT maps. NT (= New Technology, as in Windows NT, but no relation) is Garmin’s closely guarded secret and to the best of my knowledge the encryption hasn’t been cracked yet. There are almost no free NT maps around. The only ones I’m aware of are Malsingmaps.com and Navigasi.net.

“Non-NT maps” works for me. I just know that my Quest is on the verge of being rendered obsolete because Garmin doesn’t put out the older non-NT maps any longer. Their contribution to planned obsolescence, no doubt. I can’t imagine it would be difficult for them to continue to provide maps in this format, but I know it’s not going to happen. They’d prefer I spend $600-$700 on a new (overpriced) GPS.

I do see a non-existent street for my neighborhood on the OSM maps.

This is invaluable info. Please display it in OSM, start the Potlatch editor and delete it.

Also, the street named assigned to the phantom street in my neighborhood actually belongs to another street here. Hopefully I’ll be able to edit that information, too.

As for adding house numbers, I’m assuming that you haven’t done any editing in OSM yet. There is a bit of a learning curve involved, so may I suggest that you team up with an experienced OSM member, possibly in your area, to get started. You could ask in the US forum.

I have found the GPS in my Samsung Galaxy next to useless and since you have a Quest I suggest you use that for data logging instead. Unless the GPS in your phone is better you will get track logs with higher accuracy from your GPSr.

No, I have no experience editing in OSM. I’ll check that forum for help with editing when I get to that point. I have downloaded track logs from my Quest, but I’ll need someone on that forum to tell me what data to provide and how to extract it.

Anyway, thanks again for the input. Hopefully I’ll get this figured out and get some useful maps for my Quest (and make a contribution to the project!)…

Kind regards,
TJ

[Beddhist (Peter Hendricks)]

@TJNoffy

Their contribution to planned obsolescence, no doubt. I can’t imagine it would be difficult for them to continue to provide maps in this format, but I know it’s not going to happen. They’d prefer I spend $600-$700 on a new (overpriced) GPS.

That’s one way to look at it. The other is that the old format is quite limited in what can be done with it, whereas NT maps have a lot of sexy things like speed, speed limits, junction view, lane assist and I suspect that even different vehicle categories actually work. That’s progress, which does lead to obsolescence. I can buy a new Nuvi 50 here in NZ for under $110, incl. lifetime maps. I don’t call that overpriced.

Regards,
Peter.

[Marco-Marius]

Many Streets in Australia, for example, do not carry street numbers. The Australian NT maps supplied by Garmin do, however, carry those street numbers.
It is not clear whether Australian cadastral databases carrying the street numbers are available to OSM. Adding numbers by user hand editing would take… a very long time.
Example - Old Eltham Road, Lower Plenty, Melbourne, Australia.
Marco

[hadw]

This is a very old thread!

However, in the UK, capturing street numbers on the ground is the only effective way of doing it. Bing, who are used for reverse geocoding by several services used to report problems to councils, clearly rely on interpolated numbers, as they can be wildly wrong where there are large gaps in the houses (e.g. because the space is taken by the back gardens on side streets. I think Google has the same problem. That implies that sources aren’t easily available even when money changes hands, even though I believe the National Gazetteer does have this information in the UK.

My personal view is it is much more important that the popular sport of armchair mapping building outlines.

As to missing numbers. That is becoming very common in the UK. It must cause a lot of problems for delivery drivers, service engineers, etc. I believe some US communities make it an offence not to have a readable number on each property.