Street names with or without the additional 'road' 'rd.' 'derech' ...?

Here the big question that was raised in the naming convention thread.

Should we add the information of Blv. Rd. and so on to the Israel street names?

Example :
name:he=“derech izchak [rabin]”
name:en=“izchak [rabin] road

name:he=“**sderot **[binyamin] rotshild”
name:en=“[binyamin] rotshild blvd.”

What do you think ?
is it worth it or not ?

Feedback is very welcome

My own opinion is to **not ** write it down.
It is just making the info shown in the GPS longer and not readable.

I have changed my opinion :sunglasses:

I would like to see all information inside of the name tag.
Including the street type.

I agree.

It’s too cluttering, and it’s not in any of the other maps (online, or on-paper.)

I usually delete “rehov” (in Hebrew) and “Street”, or “St.” in English,

However, I keep “Derech”, “Way”, “Road”, “Sderot”, etc., but I don’t mind if we vote for not using them as well.

I vote to write it, as well as to mark the shorter street name in [ ].

name:he=“derech izchak [rabin]”
name:en=“izchak [rabin] road”

A very simple post processing before rendering the maps, would throw away everything except the stuff inside the [ ].

So the map will only show “rabin”, but when you search a street in ramat-gan and type “R”, the software would suggest (among others): “derech izchak rabin”.

Problem - this very very very simple post processing step will probably not be added to the main OSM site…

The international standard is to write down the full road name, including Roard, Boulevard and so on as well as the full name (Theodor Herzl not simply Herzl).

The rationale is that you could have a Park, a Sqaure and a Road named to the same person and if you don’t have some way to discriminate you cannot decide to which one you want to route!

And about the longest name in the map…
please remeber… you are not mapping for the renderers but for the DB… .
The DB does’nt have any problem if the name is longer.

The Road/Boulevard/Square… could be stripped easely by every sofrware writer to not display it on a map/navigartor while it is impossible the opposite…

Edoardo (from the next summer a true israeli mapper … alyiah coming…)

look at:

Yes to write the full (“Theodor Herzl”) name, but “Street” is the default, so I don’t see any point in inflating the DB with it.

As I said above, most (all?) maps don’t have “Street” or “Rehov”.

That’s why you have amenity types.

It works well in the renderers, as well as Mkgmap and Garmin.

There’s no point in making the DB big for no real reason.
Databases should be normalized, and not hold duplicates.
The addition “Street” and “Rehov” in every name is redundancy that shouldn’t occur in a DB.

It’s not stripped by Mapnik or Osmarender, and writing a stripper for Mkgmap “by every software writer” is cumbersome, unless it would go in the main trunk, which I personally don’t believe would happen.

If you really want the “Street” added, why not have it like:
name:he:full=Rehov Theodor Herzl
name:en:full=Theodor Herzl Street

Sorry, i don’t understand what amenities have to do with streets…

I can’t understand why you have problems with database size…
the devs ever stated that this is not a problem, to be the most complete possible in inserting information
We need to be more precise possible because every simplification could be done via automatic ways while completion can’t!

If you don’t like to read Rehov/Street, just fill a TRAC ticket asking the mapnik/osmarender styles will be ammended to act just like NameFinder do.
For me, not hebrew speaker, nor Israeli Citizen (not yet anyway), the information about the way classification (Street, Highway, Boulevard) is relevant.

Becaouse you should entere everytime the full data, then you should have a way to enter a shortened version, but you should short by default just because YOU don’t like to read the street/rehov part of the name…
This is your personal POV while a map should have a NPOV (just like wikipedia)

In the same way I would’nt find abbreviation like iud iud iud mem to short Yerushalaim… I know sometimes in the Carta maps are used but for a foreign user (maybe hebrew spaker) could’nt know what it means…

What I’ve been doing so far is to write a short version in the name tag: ‘Herzl St.’ (in Hebrew) and then write the full versions in the name:en and name:he tags. I’ve always added the street suffix so far - it feels more natural and it does tell something for the street that you can’t see directly from the map.

If you are wondering about the difference between street, road, boulevard, avenue, etc. take a look here:

Now that I read the previous posts, I am thinking that this is not the best practice. I am not sure we can agree on what to put in the name, name:en and name:he tags, but it is probably a good idea to have a more detailed set of tags like:

name:[lang]:short: Hertzl
name:[lang]:common: Hertzl St.
name:[lang]:full: Theodor Herzl Street
name:[lang]:prefix: Rehov
name:[lang]:suffix: Street

The point is to make sure the database always has all the data. What goes into the name tag, i.e. what gets rendered generally depends on the use of the map - a map for a mobile device should use the shortest version (the short tag), a name for for the web can use the short version plus the prefix/suffix (the common tag).

I like the idea of using the column char to separate the tag keys - it will make it easy for the software.

I disagree, I think that the DB should be as complete as possible and let the renderers do the dirty job.
The tags doesn’t always keep all the required information, for example, there is no tag for Boulevard, I think.

I for example, wrote a small program that takes the map data, overrides all the “name” tags with “name:en” (since my device doesn’t support Hebrew) and shorts all “Street” to “St.”, “Road” to “Rd.”, etc, and only than upload the map to the device.
I should clean and post it if any1 is interested.

I read somewhere a guideline against abbreviations since they might mean different things in different places.
Consider “Saint Marks Street” abbreviated to “St. Marks St.”


As this thread is **ONLY ** about the question:

Add or don’t add street, road or blv. to a street name.

*** Summarizing: ***

Please add the additional street type like “Street”,“St.”, “Road”,“Rd.” to the street name.
No matter if you use Street or the shortcut “St.”. This information should be always added to the name tag.

Please don’t use prefix / postfix, because it will be harder to maintain the data and make our like unneeded complicated.

“Let the renderer do the dirty job”

I agree to add “Sderot” and “Derech”
I don’t see the point in adding “Rehov” to residential streets.

As I posted in the other thread:

*If you have Sderot Herzl, Derech Herzl and Rechov Herzl in the same city.
How would you find out what is what ?
Maybe the mapper missed to write down that its a Derech and you think : No information = Rechov. But this would be wrong.

*Checked Germany and UK and they are writing it always to the name tag. No matter if its road, way, gardens, street etc.
We should not change this behavior just for Israel.