Should I keep it in all caps, e.g. ref:SE:DIARIENR or change it to ref:SE:diarenr? Same question for ref:SE:nvrid. Are these commonly lowercase or uppercase in Sweden?
change to lower case as used for the other SE-keys (https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=ref%3ASE%3A) and common practice in OSM. Only the code “SE” should be upper case.
NVRID should probably be kept in uppercase, as NVR is an initialism and ID is usually also in uppercase. (When using the API you use camelcase (nvrId) but in official documents they use all caps for the definition.)
Diarienr should probably be lowercase since diarie is a word, and “nr” a standard shortform for number. Other cases wouldn’t make much sens (diarieNR looks wrong).
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=ref%3ASE%3A
it is all ref:SE:-lowercase- , including for: scb, pts, raa
some, although very few, were already lowercase
Yeah, those should ideally be converted to uppercase as well. Or not. I hade a quick glance over all ref values and it’s a big mess, but there are lots of somewhat established tags in uppercase, so either those are to be cleaned up and standardised as well, or uppercase is actually deemed to be fine in tags. I don’t feel like making that call, though. :)
For ref:SE: currently it would be only NVRID, but some already were nvrid - maybe because users thought it is always lowercase?
The proposal use “ref:SE:-lowercase-” is very consistent, and means no mess at least for ref:SE:.
It is widely established for Sweden to user lowercase.
If @ilias could proceed with the switch as described at: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/standardise-switch-from-ref-raa-to-refraa/136483/20
there would be a relatively clean set for ref:SE: visible at:
- https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=ref%3ASE%3A
- https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Key_descriptions_for_group_"references"&pagefrom=ref%3ASE
Also, looking at one example from those that @ilias converted from ref:nvrid to ref:SE:nvrid with https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/173408997 (those already using lowercase all were from around Örebrö):
example: Relation: Sundsjömarkens naturreservat (15506905) | OpenStreetMap
| key | value |
|---|---|
| governance_type | Länsstyrelse |
| leisure | nature_reserve |
| lst:ref | 2042292 |
| name | Sundsjömarkens naturreservat |
| operator | Länsstyrelsen i Örebro län |
| protect_class | Ia |
| protection_title | Naturreservat |
| ref:DIARIENR | 1023245 |
| ref:SE:nvrid | 2042292 |
| related_law | Miljöbalken |
| site_status | Gällande |
| start_date | 2014-11-27 |
| type | multipolygon |
the only part uppercase would be :SE: - which has a specific reasons:
- these two letter codes easy to be mistaken as language codes, and ISO writes them uppercase for this not to happen
- it is very widely established in OSM keys to use uppercase for the ISO 3166 code and in OSM values it is the only form, following ISO practice, cf. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ISO3166-1:alpha2#values - yes, the OSM key in this case uses uppercase (part of the “big mess”), but it doesn’t even use “ref:” which is inconsistent.
To use lowercase after ref:SE: is: a) easy to remember b) consistent with current practice within ref:SE: c) not inconsistent with practice elsewhere because consistency there doesn’t exist (“I hade a quick glance over all ref values and it’s a big mess”).
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Just using lowercase for all ref:SE is a terrible idea. There is absolutely no consensus/consistency for that. If something is written in uppercase, it should stay uppercase. If not, it should stay lowercase. As an example, the French are pretty good with this.
The votes show otherwise.
Who disagrees with using “ref:SE:diarienr”?
Are you the first?
Votes were to standardize anything that’s Swedish from ref:* to ref:SE:*, not using lowercase for everything.
I don’t disagree with using ref:SE:diarienr, I disagree with using lowercase for literally everything. Why would you do that? Standardization is good, but over-standardization is a terrible idea. So I’ll ask the question again:
If they’re acronyms, then surely they should be uppercase. You really think we should use usa instead of USA? fbi instead of FBI?
If they’re names, then lowercase is fine. I made some research and from what was mentioned on this thread, acronyms are:
- RAÄ – Riksantikvarieämbetet (National Heritage Board)
- SCB – Statistiska centralbyrån (Statistics Sweden)
- PTS – Post- och telestyrelsen (Swedish Post and Telecom Authority)
- NVRID – Identifier from “Nationella Värdefulla Riksintressen” (Environmental Protection Code registry)
- SL – Storstockholms Lokaltrafik (Stockholm Public Transport)
Names are:
- diarienr – case/record number
- fastighetsbeteckning – property designation
- lan / län – county
- kommun – municipality
- skola / skolenhetskod / verkform – school / school unit code / form of education
- rikshållplats – national stop ID
- skolverket – Swedish National Agency for Education
- hjartstartarregistret.se – Swedish defibrillator register (domain-based identifier)
- grillplatser.nu – domain-based identifier (public BBQ spots)
Acronyms should stay uppercase, and names lowercase.
Why then is the renaming from ref:DIARIENR to ref:SE:diarienr not done? While ref:nvrid to ref:SE:nvrid was done?
Before there was:
Post 20
Post 21
Post 22
Post 23
Because 1. I don’t work for you, and 2. That’s the moment I realized some of them might be names and some might be acronyms.
In any case, let’s stay on topic, what do you think about
1 Like
@1 - What does that statement have to do with the topic? Other renamings have been done when “I don’t work for you” was true too.
@2 - What does that have to do with “the renaming from ref:DIARIENR to ref:SE:diarienr”?
A few ref:diarienr existed, they have been converted to ref:SE:diarienr. Conversion of ref:DIARIENR to ref:SE:diarienr may take some time. I have no JOSM and don’t know how to do it in one edit. The user that help in the other conversions doesn’t provide help in that case, despite agreement to convert to ref:SE:diarienr.
FAQ - OpenStreetMap Community Forum : “* Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream.”
The topic was to add “:SE:” first on “ref:raa” then on other SE-specific keys, to make these keys 1) easier findable, recogonizable and 2) unique (=in other countries there might also be references named “raa” etc.)
Lowercase was used overwhelmingly and currently each “ref:SE:xyz” uses “xyz” in lowercase, which is also easier to type. Some SE-specific keys that did user allcaps ref:XYZAB also had a few cases where users used “ref:xyzab”, i.e. “Acronyms should stay uppercase” leads to inconsistency within the set of “ref:SE:…”, because some acronmys aren’t uppercase and therefore cannot “stay uppercase”.
FAQ - OpenStreetMap Community Forum : “Rather than taking an existing topic in a radically different direction, use Reply as a Linked Topic.”
Because before you were being polite and not disrespectful?
You’re literally the one that said lowercase should be used everywhere, I simply followed up?
I think you’re either trolling or you have a very low IQ. From reading your other recent discussions (such as this one where you’re calling out every person that downvotes your comments, yikes), it seems like option b. You’re just citing random quotes from the OSM Forum FAQ.
You said everything should be lowercase, I said that’s pretty brainless because acronyms are inherently uppercase (usa, fbi, cia, nato, unesco… really?). You said this has nothing to do with the thread… the intellectual level…
In any case, have fun learning about how to use JOSM or finding someone else to do this for you.
1 Like
That doesn’t explain what “I don’t work for you” has to do with the renaming.
No, there was a poll and the outcome was to rename.
While renaming before and after the poll has been done, the renaming from ref:DIARIENR to ref:SE:diarienr hasn’t been done.
Still no reason given for not doing it.
That has nothing to do with “the renaming from ref:DIARIENR to ref:SE:diarienr”, because the renaming is based on the poll.
Where?
https://community.openstreetmap.org/faq " * Don’t divert a topic by changing it midstream."
The topic is confined to the naming of OSM keys starting with “ref:SE:” or those that should be converted to use this prefix. “usa, fbi, cia, nato, unesco”-OSM keys (if they exist) are not prefixed “ref:SE:” nor has there been a proposal to do so.
Please stop.
Leave it as it is now.
3 Likes
There were also several cases without “ref” https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/572712582/history/4
| Key | Value |
|---|---|
| DIARIENR | 511-3791-12 |
| NVRID | 2043307 |
18 keys using allcaps:
| Key | Value |
|---|---|
| AREA_HA | 18.72 |
| BESLMYND | Länsstyrelse |
| BESLSTATUS | Gällande |
| DIARIENR | 511-3791-12 |
| FORVALTARE | Länsstyrelsen i Västmanlands län |
| GEOSTATUS | Slutligt inmätt |
| IUCNKAT | Ia, Strikt naturreservat (Strict Nature Reserve) |
| KOMMUN | Arboga |
| LAGRUM | Miljöbalken |
| LAN | Västmanlands Län |
| LAND_HA | 18.76 |
| NVRID | 2043307 |
| SENGALLDAT | 2015-01-10 |
| SKOG_HA | 16.64 |
| SKYDDSTYP | Naturreservat |
| URSBESLDAT | 2014-12-17 |
| URSGALLDAT | 2015-01-10 |
| VATTEN_HA | 0.0 |
| leisure | nature_reserve |
| name | Norra Hammaren |
| national_park | naturreservat |
| wikidata | Q30158010 |