[Solved] How to indicate that it's allowed to jump over the turnstile gate?

Lôo · 2024-06-17T16:19:10.144Z

We have in the region of Zermatt a hiking trail crossing a train station (Findelbach).

There is a turnstile gate on each side of the train station, which can only be opened with a train ticket.

I’ve received an oral confirmation from the authority that it’s allowed to jump over the turnstile if you are a hiker. So in theory I can keep the gate access to “allowed”, but this would be confusing for most hikers.

I’m wondering what is the correct way to map that situation.

My plan is to mark gate access with the tag “restricted”. This should prevent planning maps like Komoot to provide a route that goes though that gate.

Note: It’s possible to cross the train station officially using a bridge, with a reasonable detour of about 500m.

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Mateusz_Konieczny · 2024-06-17T16:32:15.830Z

Lôo:

My plan is to mark gate access with the tag “restricted”.

Why? Given “it’s allowed to jump over the turnstile if you are a hiker” is is access=yes

dieterdreist · 2024-06-17T16:51:29.000Z

I would bet these cost more than their benefit is, I’d rather ask them to dismantle the whole thing, installing a turn stile and then allowing people to jump over it is ridiculous, maybe it was an oversight that there is a hiking trail running across these? In the meantime, something like “access:conditional=permissive@hiking” could be ok, or maybe “yes”? How long do you have to hike in order to be a hiker? An oral permission is not very satisfying in terms of guarantee.

Lôo · 2024-06-17T16:57:48.127Z

dieterdreist:

How long do you have to hike in order to be a hiker? An oral permission is not very satisfying in terms of guarantee.

The other route is very close (500m) and it doesn’t matter much if this is planned in advance.

For example, I would not expect a family or less fit people to jump over that barrier, it’s quite cumbersome to do and you have to cross the train track without safety.

This is why I tend to mark it as “restricted” access since this is the intended use.

dieterdreist · 2024-06-17T17:21:16.000Z

if you have to literally “jump” it would not work for my family, but if climbing over and under it would be ok, there would be not problem to pass the obstacle. On your picture it also looks as if you could simply walk around it, but I guess it would be forbidden, right? What about wheelchair users?

trigpoint · 2024-06-17T17:41:02.000Z

Can’t the staff open it?

Turnstiles can be an obstruction to many passengers, wheelchair users, push chairs, heavy luggage.

Based on here in the UK ticket barriers can only be closed if they are staffed to ensure there is assistance for passengers.

Surely Swiss Railways are not lagging behind the UK.

eginhard · 2024-06-18T09:30:24.142Z

The Gornergrat line is not a normal Swiss train line, but a mountain train for tourists. It’s quite expensive, hence the barriers. While you can take this train in a wheelchair, Findelbach station is not accessible because it only serves the hiking trails. On the other side of the station, there is also definitely no way to go around the turnstile: Station Findelbach

According to swisstopo, there is no hiking trail crossing the station, just a path leading to it from either side. I expect the way to the station to be signed on the nearby guideposts, but I’d be surprised if the way to any other destination is signed such that you’d have to cross the station because there are many other options using official trails. Therefore I think access=customers is appropriate for the turnstiles.

dieterdreist · 2024-06-18T10:15:10.000Z

The Gornergrat line is not a normal Swiss train line, but a mountain train for tourists. It’s quite expensive, hence the barriers. While you can take this train in a wheelchair, Findelbach station is not accessible because it only serves the hiking trails.

if the station is only for hikers, and hikers are allowed to jump over it if they don’t take the train, it seems to confirm that the turnstile is moot at this position

habi · 2024-06-18T14:48:25.241Z

dieterdreist:

the station is only for hikers, and hikers are allowed to jump over it if they don’t take the train, it seems to confirm that the turnstile is moot at this position

As @Lôo wrote in his first post, hikers are technically supposed to walk around the station when hiking through here. Other hikers starting or stopping here need to pass the turnstile to access the trail or train, hence I don’t think the turnstile is moot here.

Fjellrev · 2024-06-18T15:18:25.165Z

I start with a description how I understand the situation.
The railway-company (it is a tourists only railway (Gornergratbahn)) has installed an automatic ticket control system with the turnstiles.
There is a hiking-path crossing the station that is now kind of “blocked” by the turnstiles.
Lôo got the oral information from someone of the comunity (but not the railway-company that owns the area that needs to be crossed) that hikers can “ignore” the turnstiles and simply jump over them.
But of course this information is not to be found on place.
So I would not map this information as it might just cause more confusion.
Which one is better?
a) If someone sees the two tracks and takes the shortcut by jumping over the turnstiles.
b) If someone jumps over the turnstiles because it is mapped that as a hiker he is allowed to and then ends in a argument with some railway staff?

vmicho · 2024-06-18T15:37:59.657Z

There is a guidepost on the map 100 m West of the station. Maybe somebody can look at it where it is officially pointing (anf fill the direction_xxx = yyy tags). If the hiking route is signed around the station (maybe except a direction to the station itself), then it is clear the access thru turnstiles is restricted.

Lôo · 2024-06-18T16:01:41.009Z

Thank you all for your contribution.

I’ve checked today the signs and the situation is as follows:

There is a pole with a sign pointing to the train station, with only the name of the train station
The same pole has a sign pointing to a different path with the name of the villages after the train station

Therefore, my view is:

The station tolerate that hikers who took the wrong path jump over the turnstile
The authorities didn’t intend that the hikers to go through the train station
The shortcut though the gates should not be shown.

As a solution, I will set for the moment the attribute on the turnstile “foot=customers”.

Additionally, I’ve noticed that Swisstopo shows also this shortcut. I’ll contact them to inform them about that situation so that they can decide what action to take (update the map, add a sign, …)

Edit 1: I’ve marked it a solved and keep an update here is I have some more info from the local map authorities.

Edit 2: I’ve added a reference to that thread as a note on the turnstile gate, so that futher editors are aware of the dicussion