Language and location based content and categories

Definitely we need to optimize for the user experience, so we have some assumptions that will need to be tested in real conditions, probably we won’t have the best approach at once. Good that it’s easy to move things around here and adapt.

In the medium term I would like to see groups of people or even communities interested in user experience (UX), not only for these community forums, but for OSM in general.

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🌐 Español

ÂżQuĂ© idioma deberĂ­an tener las etiquetas en las categorĂ­as de idioma? Es decir, si yo por ejemplo creo una publicaciĂłn en la categorĂ­a de español acerca de rutas ciclistas, Âżpuedo usar la etiqueta “ciclismo” (en español) o debo usar la etiqueta “cycling” (en inglĂ©s)? En el primer caso impedirĂ­a que se pudiesen buscar fĂĄcilmente conversaciones con ese mismo tema en otros idiomas, y en el segundo caso podrĂ­a dificultar el uso de las etiquetas a los no angloparlantes. Lo ideal creo que serĂ­a que las etiquetas fuesen localizables de manera que cada usuario las viera en su propio idioma (el que tenga configurado en los ajustes), no sĂ© si Discourse permite eso.

(Por cierto, me ha gustado esta idea de incluir traducciones adicionales de un post en un spoiler)

In which language should the tags be used in language categories? For example, if I create a post in the Spanish category about cycling routes, can I use the tag “ciclismo” (in Spanish) or should I use the tag “cycling” (in English)? In the first case it would prevent people from easily being able to search for threads with that same subject across languages, and in the second case it could make it difficult for non-English speakers to use the tags. I think the ideal would be for the tags to be localisable so that each user could see them in their own language (the one that is set in preferences), I don’t know whether Discourse supports this.

(By the way, I liked this idea of including additional translations of a post in a spoiler).

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🌐 Español

He estado buscando y no he encontrado una forma sencilla de localizar etiquetas. Algunas personas sugieren que el uso de la etiqueta en inglés + la localizada ayudaría a la visibilidad en tu idioma y a nivel mundial.

I’ve been looking around and I haven’t found a simple way to localize tags. Some people suggests that using the English + localized tag would help discoverability in your language and at the global level.

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In NL we have a small sub-forum that is only for a small group of mappers that import buildings from Dutch authorities (BAG) by using a JOSM plugin, developed and distributed by Dutch BAG plugin developers.
The discussion and distribution of this plugin is quite advanced and the group is quite careful their members (and only write in Dutch language). We have no other way of communicating.

This might be a good opportunity to review the need for that sub-forum to be closed (not here in this thread obviously). Well-intended, It does go against the spirit of OpenStreetMap. The reasons for keeping it closed (avoid having novice mappers unintentionally damage the map with a powerful plugin) are not as valid as they once were, because importing data from Dutch BAG/BGT sources is something any developer can develop tools for, and the source code for the BAG plugin is open as well (you have to build it yourself though).

The phrasing of the subject may make language and location look a bit like synonyms. I beg to differ. Especially, as long as location is taken as given by nation state borders.

Obviously, people need a means to talk shop (Fachsimpeln in German) in their native language: Asking questions about diverse topics, from concise tagging, over simple editor to complex API issues; Seeking advice from a larger audience when conflicts cannot be settled in changeset discussions; And so on. It is a matter of accessibility.

Where does that leave us with “location”? Unlike “language”, it is much more difficult to nail this down. Splitting by country code makes sense where legal differences apply. Sometimes, this is much too coarse, while at the same time deeply separates regions that may benefit from integration.

3 posts were split to a new topic: Dutch BAG/BGT discussion

A recent statistic about the most active forum channels gave the following number of posts:

Germany 322015
Russia 266242
Netherlands 66060
Poland 58439
Ukraine 16520

Judging from this Top 5, there are some languages still missing in the planned list.

Side subject : is it possible technically to display the languages understood and spoken by a user ?

Like Babel user information

We could “share” these translations/concept in the knowledge base (aka DataItems)

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Why not fill our profile with this ?

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A post was split to a new topic: Site URL to “communities”

While we are discussing this, the first language-oriented topic has been created: Netherlands+Belgium (dutch)

Any chance we can implement a consistent scheme before things become too complex?

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During this period the Communities category can serve for multiple communities to get familiar with the platform. People can use tags so we can easily move all things around to a new category with a couple of clicks.

In addition to that we can agree on a process to handle requests here and then grow organically as more people and communities start using the forums

OK. But is it clear to everyone that tags and categories may/will be reshuffled in some time?

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We can put clear wording about this and how topics might be moved if they are more suitable for other categories. The forum is a living thing, we will keep improving and evolving and we might want/need different things in the future than we need today.

Be aware that the more content we put here (including creating categories) before migrating the old forum, the more we create migration issues


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Probably, but there are also a number of communities that were not active in the old forums and want to have a space here as soon as possible. We shouldn’t probably block any content creation or activity here because of a potential migration (which we haven’t decided yet if we’ll go that route).

Let’s keep this proposal open for input and feedback until March 29th.

After that date the @forums-governance team will take in consideration all the input and take a decision.

Thanks!

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There are lots of people that use the DE forum. It is serving both the needs of people, that prefer to communicate in the German language and to talk about local issues, that affect people in Germany.

I propose to add a category “Deutsch” to community.openstreetmap.org, that is explicitly tailored to talk about various issues in the German language. The category must not be named “German”, because this contradicts the low barrier entrance idea of accessibility for the people, that have no command of the English language.

The category should, in my personal opinion, NOT specify “issues in territories of the German Nation State” as something that it is about. Such should be in a different category, from perusing the DE forum, I thin a tag would be better. Very little talk there is about Germany as a whole.

No idea, if category is the right guide. After all, language does not lend itself for use as a category. Language is not a category. But discourse does not offer a suitable replacement. BTW: Machine translation, again my POV, will never capture the delicacies in phrasing. (Natives do not fare much better, but so be it.)

When you take a look at the posting statistics it is quite clear that the most intensely used categories in the “old forum” are some of the national user communities. Considering this fact my suggestions would be to migrate the existing user community structure into the “new forum” (together with the complete content of course). In the same way we show respect to the mapping work of other contributors the contributions of communitiy members to the forum should also be respected. Any set up national community, big or small, is well worth to get a place in the new forum.

Not every community member will be happy with the migration of the forum to a new platform, be it Discourse ore any other one. I do not think it would increase acceptance if the whole structure will be rearranged simultaneously. Talking about rearrangement could be the next step 
 keeping the forum alive. I personally would not have a problem to change the focus from national communities (France, Germany 
) to language based communities (French, German 
) but such a change should be based on a widespread discussion within the communities affected.

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