Proposal - Change Stele to permit other construction material

General talk
1

Hello.

Reading another discussion reminded me of the Tag:information=stele. The definition that it is “a stone or wooden slab” may be strictly accurate, especially in terms of historical objects, but I suggest that current construction, especially for local, pedestrian maps, is often of other material - and indeed the principal illustration and some of the examples support this view. (Were one to be strict (silly?) about the definition, the images relating to Hötzendorf-Platz, Ribnitz-Damgarten and Brisbane, would have to be removed!)

I could be accused of being narrow-minded here, and many users may simply ignore that part of the definition, but, to reflect reality (and to tidy the language), I suggest we change
”A stele (a stone or wooden slab, erected vertically) with informative text and/or images that may be inscribed, carved in relief, or painted.”

to
”A stele is a stone, wooden or other slab, erected vertically, with informative text and/ or images which may be inscribed, carved in relief, printed or painted.”

Objections?

2 Likes
2

I have a general objection to diluting definitions of well-known things so that they cover every possible exception and corner case. Particularly in situations where the available space is limited and you have to provide a readily understandable expression. Few random examples off the top of my head (picked up from the history of Wikipedia articles, I think):

  • Wine is an alcoholic drink made from fermented grape juice. :check_mark:
  • Wine is an alcoholic drink made from fermented juice of various types of grapes or several other fruit types. :cross_mark:
  • Cello is a bowed string instrument of the violin family. :check_mark:
  • Cello is a string instrument of the violin family played by bowing, plucking or knocking the body. :cross_mark:

Sure, do mention all the variations, corner cases and counterexamples in the text of the documentation, but please keep the definition sweet, succinct, and to the point.

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. – (ascribed to) Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

4 Likes
3

in fact adding “generally” or “usually” solves the edge cases. But I agree with you.

4

Given the fact that at least 3 of the images on our Wiki page don’t match the description (possibly even 5 or more, but granite and concrete are a bit hard to tell apart from photos)…: :+1:

Maybe

A stele is a slab, erected vertically, often made from wood or stone,…

1 Like
5

I would remove the material completely and use the text of the German version, with the addition, what this form generally is:

An information sign in the shape of a stele, generally taller than wide.

The current text was probably copied from Wikipedia:

and missing the most important part :frowning:

1 Like
6

Edit:
This edit was just two years ago, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:information%3Dstele&diff=prev&oldid=2731674 in in my opinion wrong.

1 Like
7

I agree, all the additional requirements and specifics that were added there have likely not been discussed and come out of nowhere.

8

TIL about information=stele. I struggle enough with disambiguating infoboards, maps, and plaques already :sob:

1 Like
9

Hmm. Nearly, I think, but including in the definition the word being defined doesn’t help the reader understand the definition.

Accommodating Duja and mueschel as well, perhaps therefore:

“A stele is a vertical slab with informative text and/ or images.”

I think I’d be reluctant to take away any more …

2 Likes
10

ok for stele in the information context, but it should not include the wikipedia link in the definition, rather put it at the bottom in see also.