Potlatch: what is the status with Flash / Adobe Air?

Geofalke · 2020-12-19T07:16:43.000Z

SomeoneElse:

BikePC:

How to force Potlatch3 to start a new changeset?

Press “c”. I’ve always used that on the web version too.

It’s good practice to press ‘c’ before closing the current version of Potlatch 3, because otherwise OSM keeps the changeset open for a while before closing automatically.

I’d like to propose that Potlatch 3 sends a Close-command before being closed itself.

Richard, please check the information that is sent for tagging a changeset.

Potlatch 3 AIR:

build=3.0
created_by=Potlatch
os=Windows 10
version=3.0

Potlatch 3 Windows:

build=null
created_by=Potlatch
os=Windows 10
version=3.0

Nevertheless: Thank you very much for your great work!

cleary · 2020-12-29T23:39:19.000Z

I am a long-time Linux user (mostly Debian or Debian-based distros). I have not been able to install Air nor able to get Potlatch3 to work with Wine. Using Wine, I have tried multiple times on different Linux distros and managed to open the program but it crashes as soon as I try to do something - there are repeated errors related to inability to debug but I have not been able to resolve them. I have resorted to creating a virtual Windows machine using VirtualBox and it requires purchase of a Windows licence but that is the only way I have been able to use Potlatch3. I have tried to research the situation a little and it appears that Adobe have washed their hands of both Flash and Air and the Harman company has taken over Air but with no intention of making Air-based programs accessible to Linux. I am disappointed that I cannot get Potlatch3 to work under Linux and I would be very happy if someone else has been successful and could show me how. But I am appreciative that I can continue to use Potlatch even if only by installing a virtual Windows machine.

Richard · 2020-12-30T11:19:14.000Z

Hi folks,

New version now available for download: https://www.systemed.net/potlatch/

The Mac version is now fully signed and will run as an application without any warnings.

The Windows version is now available as an installer as well as a “bundle”. The installer currently pops up an installation warning but I have a certificate on order to avoid that.

Other changes in the latest version are: the build date is now saved in the changeset tags; you can choose to use it with a non-OSM site (e.g. OpenGeoFiction); a bug relating to dashed line rendering is fixed; the help page is complete, and I’ve updated the index and download pages.

I’m sorry it hasn’t yet been possible to find a reliable way of running on Linux. I’m hopeful that someone will find a magic incantation to install the old AIR 2.6 and use the P3 .air file with that, and I’m continuing to build a file which has the old 2.6 descriptor (labelled as “more Linux-friendly” on the downloads) which could potentially run with this.

Geofalke · 2020-12-31T18:51:36.000Z

Today is 31 December 2020, officially the last day for using Adobe Flash. Thank you very much to Richard for making it possible to go on OSMapping with Potlatch in the next year!
Happy New Year!

stephan75 · 2021-01-02T21:31:17.000Z

Hello Richard, many thanks for your efforts about Potlatch3 so far!!

concerning the github-repo for potlatch3 at https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3 :

What about enabling the new “Discussions” feature there?

(See example for StreetComplete at https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/discussions )

Pfad-Finder · 2021-01-02T22:31:06.000Z

Is there a plan/roadmap for integrating P3 into the OSM website as P2 uses/used to be? It really would be nice to start P3 automatically in the right place when clicking on a GPX-track.

Geofalke · 2021-01-03T09:59:55.000Z

After having done a few edits with a test-account in OSM I wanted to log out again. But Potlatch3 never asks for a new account name and password, even if I clicked [Log out] or even [Reset].
Dear Richard, please put the current user name on the Options - Connection - Page (or somewhere else in the menu) and make Potlatch 3 really forget it after Log out. Thanks a lot!

BikePC · 2021-01-03T10:20:20.000Z

@Pfad-Finder,
Difference between P2 and P3 is that P2 was running as a browser-integrated Adobe Flash application, while P3 is a standalone application running on the PC. This would imply to start P3 from within the OSM website, or at least warn the user to start P3 manually in case the OSM website cannot detect P3 being loaded already. For this reason I doubt if this scenario will be possible or very practical.

What can be done now is change the text under the rolldown arrow beside the ‘Edit’ button to:
Edit with iD (in-browser editor)
REMOVE Edit with Potlatch 2 …
Edit with Remote Control (JOSM, Merkaartor or Potlatch 3)
AND
Change the text of the error message “Editing failed - make sure JOSM or Merkaartor is loaded and the remote control option is enabled” to “*Editing failed - make sure JOSM or Merkaartor or Potlatch 3 is loaded and the remote control option is enabled
*”
If you then adapt your preferences on osm.org to edit using Pemote Control you will get a warning to remind you to load Potlatch 3 before you start your editing session. You will learn fast enough to load P3 first if you plan an editing session - easy to do if P3 is pinned to the Windows Taskbar.

Would this be an acceptable scenario? For me at least, it is.

How to reach the maintainers of the osm.org website to ask them to make the adaption?

Pfad-Finder · 2021-01-03T18:01:54.000Z

BikePC:

Would this be an acceptable scenario? For me at least, it is.

Sounds good to me, too.

SK53 · 2021-01-03T21:18:05.000Z

There’s already discussion on the OSM Website github about this, and one proposed change is not to mention specific editors for ‘remote control’, although a specific text has not yet been agreed.

BikePC · 2021-01-03T21:37:35.000Z

SK53:

… one proposed change is not to mention specific editors for ‘remote control’, …

+1 Would be fine for me.

Jan_Olieslagers1 · 2021-01-08T16:50:23.000Z

Well, here we are:

I always used potlatch2 for editing and had got very much used to it
potlatch2 has now been disabled, though the underlying flash is still available - it is only “unsupported”
the alternative potlatch3 is not available to me as a “true blue” linux user

I think my motivation for contributing will suffer seriously. Also, I feel almost like cheated because rare and much-needed funds from OSM were used to create this potlatch3 that is of no use to me. Had I known this beforehand I’d never have supported the assignment of OSM money.

Very disappointed,

n76 · 2021-01-08T19:33:35.000Z

Jan Olieslagers:

Well, here we are:

I always used potlatch2 for editing and had got very much used to it

potlatch2 has now been disabled, though the underlying flash is still available - it is only “unsupported”

the alternative potlatch3 is not available to me as a “true blue” linux user

I think my motivation for contributing will suffer seriously. Also, I feel almost like cheated because rare and much-needed funds from OSM were used to create this potlatch3 that is of no use to me. Had I known this beforehand I’d never have supported the assignment of OSM money.

Very disappointed,

You might want to check out JOSM. . .

For what it is worth, my very first edits were with Potlach1 and I disliked it so much that I went looking for alternatives and found JOSM. Many claim that JOSM has a steeper learning curve. Maybe that is true, but it didn’t seem all that hard to learn basic editing with it. And it is written in JAVA so it runs on Linux as well as MacOS and Windows.

Jan_Olieslagers1 · 2021-01-08T20:08:06.000Z

Yes, JOSM seems the least unfortunate alternative. I’ll tackle it one day, if I can muster the required amount of motivation. Still, I feel I have been led by the nose by the suggestion that PL3 would be an alternative for PL2 - it isn’t, at least not for me; and yet I was misled into supporting its funding from OSM.

Stereo · 2021-01-09T16:11:42.000Z

See https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3/issues/2 about running Potlatch 3 on Linux.

https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3/issues/5 is about running it on Wine, but it seems like a dead end for now.

Jan_Olieslagers1 · 2021-01-09T16:33:12.000Z

Wine is not a solution anyway. It can never be more than a work-around, and never a strong one.

Richard · 2021-01-09T17:10:46.000Z

It’s always been the case that running it on Linux wouldn’t be a slam-dunk because AIR for Linux hasn’t been updated since 2011. For that reason, nowhere along the line has anyone promised that Linux would definitely happen. I believe that mmd’s findings in https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3/issues/2 show that it will be possible without Wine, most realistically with some container-like solution, but it needs someone who’s pretty skilled in Linux administration to establish that.

That someone certainly isn’t me, but I’m willing to give as much assistance as I can, compile special versions of P3, and so on. For what it’s worth, the two blockers are absolutely on the Adobe side and not on the P3 side: the first is that it’s just plain hard to install on modern systems, the second is that it turns out AIR doesn’t support TLS 1.1/1.2 and therefore has difficulty connecting to many modern https servers. Neither of those are things I can fix in the P3 codebase though I wish I could!

SomeoneElse · 2021-01-09T17:34:50.000Z

Jan Olieslagers:

I think my motivation for contributing will suffer seriously. Also, I feel almost like cheated because rare and much-needed funds from OSM were used to create this potlatch3 that is of no use to me. Had I known this beforehand I’d never have supported the assignment of OSM money.

Perhaps it’s worth mentioning that I’m pretty sure that the OSMF didn’t just have just you personally in mind when they made that allocation…

With regard to the options for P3 on Linux, https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3/issues/2 does indeed look like a major challenge, given that it seems to rely on a very old runtime for Linux that doesn’t work with sites that don’t support antique TLS versions - even once you get past any 32-bit/64-bit issues. However:

Jan Olieslagers:

Wine is not a solution anyway. It can never be more than a work-around, and never a strong one.

I’m guessing that’s just your political opinion? If so, fine - you’re entitled to your own beliefs (but not to your own facts, of course).

Using Wine actually avoids some of the issues in https://github.com/systemed/potlatch3/issues/2 because it’s using a newer runtime, and because Wine handles the 32/64 bit issues (via WinSxS I guess). It’s certainly not perfect, but it’s good enough to use as a “normal” editor.

Jan_Olieslagers1 · 2021-01-09T18:19:33.000Z

Perhaps it’s worth mentioning that I’m pretty sure that the OSMF didn’t just have just you personally in mind when they made that allocation…

No, I do not consider myself so much noteworthy Still, I had been led to believe that his here PL3 would be a full complete alternative to PL2 - it is not. And I did support the funding, and I now regret having done so, on the grounds of (to say the least) incomplete information.

I’m guessing that’s just your political opinion?

What has politics to do here? Will you discuss Brexit next?

But as an IT professional, I firmly hold the opinion that an emulator - which Wine essentially is - can never be a realistic alternative for a native application, which PL2 was.

it’s good enough to use as a “normal” editor.

You may have your own notions of “good enough” and “normal” - but may I be allowed to stay with mine? There seems to be a discrepancy.

Geofalke · 2021-01-10T10:10:13.000Z

Jan Olieslagers:

Still, I had been led to believe that his here PL3 would be a full complete alternative to PL2 - it is not. And I did support the funding, and I now regret having done so, on the grounds of (to say the least) incomplete information.

It’s still better to have Potlatch 3 than no such software at all. For those working on Windows-systems (like me) it is a good alternative to e. g. JOSM and worth every Cent of the funding. Of course I hope PL3 will still see some improvements and hopefully for Linux systems too.

But don’t take PL3 hostage in the holy war of Linux vs. Windows.