place=city and place=town

Another round of tagging discussion…

So, if I’m doing the tagging, I will consider whether a certain place is under a city council (Majlis Bandaraya) or simply something else e.g. municipal council (Majlis Perbandaran). Therefore, place with a city council is definitely place=city e.g. Majlis Bandaraya Kuala Lumpur, etc. The rest is may be simply place=town. Simple, but clear cut.

I don’t consider the population of the certain place which can be very subjective.

Would love to hear thoughts on this issue.

So… sungai petani is a town? :smiley:

Population of town/city can be obtained from National statistics…I think.
I am fine either way.

Well, there’s only Majlis Perbandaran Sungai Petani. I would say definitely yes, although SP is bigger and more populous than Alor Setar - only the designated city (bandar raya) in Kedah.

So let’s say, we follow a list from the English Wikipedia. Only 12 places listed as cities. Big towns still under a municipality (majlis perbandaran) haven’t been considered as official cities.

If we consider the number of population, then it’s going to be quite subjective. Look at Subang Jaya. How about Kangar? Then compare this, compare that… suddenly there are between 30-40 cities. But if we somehow make a poll, then we would know how majority thinks.

Because ideally we have to really map what we could observe, that’s why I feel that if there’s a city council (majlis bandaraya), then it’s going to be place=city.

If we make a poll, it would probably consist about 3 of us; you, me & perhaps lybdh. :laughing::lol:

Majlis Perbandaran is good enough as a criteria to me too…

I think some MP can be a town and MB mostly is capital (only PJ) so Malaysia’s MB/DB only about 10.My side is the MB MP and DB(Putrajaya and Labuan Corp.) is a city.

town or city - that’s often a complicated question. I was born in a rural area of Germany. The “capital” of the “Landkreis” (county?, admin_level=6) still has a population of less than 10 000 people. Nearby is a “town” with some 1500 inhabitants. In other areas, villages are bigger.
In Thailand, Mueang Phang Nga is the capital of Phang Nga provice (admin_level=4) with less than 10 000 inhabitants.
I don’t know such clear examples from Malaysia, Kangar is likely a little bigger. When you look at a map, you’d still like to see those provincial “capitals” even with such a little population. Rendering all towns with so little population the same way, would cause too much crowding e.g. in the Klang area.
When I create a map, I use a rule which shows provincial capitals like much bigger towns/cities, and I do not need to manipulate the data in the OSM database.
So … no decision on either way from my side.

i agree what BH said,
Now I suggest place=city use for
*Majlis Bandaraya and Dewan Besar (City Hall)
*State and Division capital
*Wilayah Persekutuan (Federal Terriroty)
*Majlis Perbandaran that morely render as city although not a MB
1.Sungai Petani
2.Bayan Lepas
4.Bukit Mertajam
6.Kuala Kangsar (Royal Capital)
7.Subang Jaya
9.Gombak-Selayang-Rawang Zone
12.Muar(Royal Capital)
13.Batu Pahat
14.Capitals that havent got MB status
b.Kota Bharu
and more…
Maybe this can be.Hope AAT can accept.

Reminds me of the discussion on how to tag highway=trunk and highway=primary many months ago. I have to admit that somehow what’s on paper does not simply “translate” directly onto preconceived OSM tags. In other words, mappers have to consider the ground truth as well, then finally decide what tag is suitable to be used (also not the other way around).

I guess place=city should be suitable for (several) places with largest population in a state, basically what’s in the in the OSM Wiki. But then again, I believe statistics is not one and the only criterion - it should be complimentarily backed, ideally, ground truth from local mappers (many, many years to come).

Figures from this Wikipedia article can be misleading, for example: Muar (is it the whole district? Or population residing in the town centre itself?) has a population of 471,148. Scroll down and one will see that 471,148 figure again: mentioning the whole district.

I visited Muar last September. The urbanised area is roughly much like this:
Tanjung Agas on the other side of river bank has only industrial areas, sandwiched between kampungs and a boarding school. Drive less than 4km away from town centre, the surrounding is simply villages (and taman perumahan in between). Feels like Pokok Sena in Kedah.

Considering user:angys’s suggestion, there would be only three places tagged in OSM as cities in Kedah: Alor Setar, Sungai Petani and Kulim. Speaking from observations:

  • Kangar

  • Selangor: Probably KL’s satellite major townships around Klang Valley. From experience: Kajang, Klang, Subang Jaya, … I have been to Ampang but I better leave it to a local person.

  • probably more later

Following everyone’s input, I may update the OSM Wiki Malaysian guidelines later, linking this forum.

And AkuAnakTimur can you list up your standard for place=city now.And maybe dont need to add Muar and Kuala Kangsar as a city.Maybe a city needs suburb (For West Malaysia)(and Muar doesnt had).Ampang has it suburb.6and 12 now I think only get place=town because there is no so much road and other things in OSM, maybe need update?

And how to add picture…

Add picture here? In the forum? Use:

[img]http://path to image link - change this/[/img]

Upload first to OSM Wiki (for example. You can also upload to Google Drive, Imgur etc), copy link and use the above code.

Coming soon. Jeng jeng jeng. But yeah, my usual practice is go to a place, survey and then decide what tag later. For the time being, I just leave things as they are. Also some places, I went like 5-6 years before I start editing OSM, that’s why I’m not confident enough.


You should feel lucky, Penang is mapped quite a lot because strong user base many years ago. And tourists. If I recall correctly, it’s also done from a mapping party 4 or 5 years ago, done by Mapbox staff. When I first mapped across Alor Setar in 2013, roads in OSM can be counted with hands you know. Oh no, memories :stuck_out_tongue:

At least there’s someone doing some automated mapping here and there using Strava heatmap. Easier that way. Well… try it.

I am the kind of, come to places and map. I only like to trace waterways remotely, but not really roads. Haha.

My city is almost like that, at 1980s BM is still a town but now BM main place had become urban and you can see Alma is still growing.Only northern place , Forest , Juru South and Machang Bukit Teh Area are kampung and I think now BM city has more than 300,000 villagers in the town.

Same case as Subang Jaya.

And I can not use OSM wiki dont know why and I had WP account but cannot login and I want to create an account and it show what server, so frustrated.