vandals smart enough to use them are fairly rare and overall it would make dealing with vandalism worse, not easier
(though maybe it would be reasonable for revert tools to refuse working for accounts with <10 edits or registered <24h before? but in such case vandals like this specific one would just make more empty edits or vandalise manually)
So the net is, not OSM but TOSM
(Exiting from further spending my time on the subject).
Can we please stop calling my edits “vandalism”? I’ve got yet to see any argument for why this would be the case.
Wouldn’t you be upset if someone reverted a bunch of your changesets that weren’t even disputed by anyone just because you deleted your account?
I can agree that maybe my methods are not the best, but words have a meaning, and whatever is what I did is surely not vandalism. It can be bad and still not be vandalism, if we use words knowing what they mean and not just because they sound bad.
Se creare >15 sockpuppet account per eludere >18 blocchi non è vandalismo, non so cosa potrebbe esserlo. Se tu stessi agendo in buona fede, non avresti bisogno di sockpuppet.
Un esempio tra molti, era dicembre 2021 quando fosti informato che Wikipedia non era una fonte valida per aggiungere ele=* e population=* nel database di OSM: Changeset: 114577827 | OpenStreetMap
Hai continuato ad aggiungere questo dato comunque, sia col tuo account principale che con sockpuppet. 12 giorni fa sei stato bacchettato per lo stesso motivo su un tuo sockpuppet: Changeset: 134806147 | OpenStreetMap
Dopo il blocco di quell’account hai continuato a creare altri account per importare ele=* e population=* sul database di OSM, pur avendo letto da diversi utenti che ciò non era possibile. Non è vandalismo?
@Martino_Scaglione Normally I’d be the first to say that most problematical editing of OSM isn’t really vandalism at all, but just a different viewpoint or an error, or inexperience in editing.
Your behaviour, however, went beyond that. You have caused a considerable amount of work for the local community and the DWG. You have created numerous sock-puppet accounts (3 francisdouglas88614, 2 freddieforbes, and 10 or so others). Your first action with these accounts was often just to force through your view about some extremely trivial matter, such as the capitalisation of names. Often, other mappers’ edits that had no quarrel with you were blown away as collateral damage.
This behaviour is not OK. Although the OSMF ban policy has a very high threshold (and among the members of the DWG I’m usually the one arguing against permanent bans) what your have done exceeds what has caused other mappers to be banned permanently from the project. I would therefore suggest that you choose your next words and actions carefully.
Firstly, I think that you owe us all an apology for the way that you have behaved.
Secondly, a way to show that you are now editing in good faith would be to only use one account.
Thirdly, do not use any revert tools; in fact do not undo any other mappers’ edit for any reason whatsoever.
If you can do those three things and edit in peace with the other mappers in the region, then I’m sure that it’ll be possible for you to continue in the project. If not, I’m not so sure. To be clear, it wouldn’t just be my decision, but a repeat of your recent problem behaviour could well be enough to convince the DWG to exclude you from OSM.
I never said anything about good faith or bad faith. I simply said this is not vandalism, as vandalism is literally defined as “willful damage on public or private property”.
Since I never saw an actual argument for why my edits could be considered damaging to the project in themselves, this
is
not
vandalism
.
OSM ha la sua propria definizione di vandalismo, che rientra perfettamente nel tuo comportamento:
Vandalism is intentionally ignoring the consensus norms of the OpenStreetMap community about editing data.
Queste norme di consenso comprendono, ad esempio, i bilinguismi. Che hai provato a modificare più volte sia con il tuo account principale che con i sockpuppet.
Why don’t you focus on editing your own area, with on-the-ground surveys, instead of changing (and deleting!) place values and place names of territories far away from you, where those place and name values has been already been decided by local users and remained the same for +10 years? There’s much to do yet in your city. There are many cool apps to be used on the field such as StreetComplete, Vespucci and Everydoor.
Also I think a good thing from you would be to make clear which other accounts belong to you. For instance, are these accounts yours: saifanjahmal | OpenStreetMap and https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/crosley-millan ?
wird gerade eben auch im deutschen Forum diskutiert mit problematischen Änderungen von Halle (Saale) und Halle (Westf.)
Repeated throwaway edit warring accounts that are deliberately rotated and created at high rate is, by itself, enough to qualify as damage to OSM as it makes harder to others to understand what is going on and wastes their time. People like to do many things in OSM, but dealing with long list of throwaway hit-and-run revert accounts is not one of them. Cleaning up such edits is not hard to do but annoying and just wastes everyone’s time to revert such edits.
You were repeatedly advised to stop such behaviour and that it is unwanted, but you continued, so it is also wilful.
What you did IS a vandalism.
Again, please stop creating new accounts or using previously created ones. Or we will just need to waste more time to create dedicated tools to catch sockpuppet accounts of fully banned vandal.
If your goal is to waste our time by vandalising OSM, then I admit: it is achievable. If you want to achieve literally anything else then please stop creating new accounts. If you will keep creating new accounts it just confirms that you are malicious vandal that should be banned.
For information: the sock puppet account https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/crosley-millan/ has been deleted. Obviously, there is no will to cooperate with the community here at all.
For information: the sock puppet account https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/crosley-millan/ has been deleted. Obviously, there is no will to cooperate with the community here at all.
I think it could be interpreted in a positive way, deleting sock puppet accounts. Another way to deal with it would be linking the main account in the user description (IMHO preferable)
It rather gives the impression that sock puppets are deleted when they are exposed. Instead, they continue with what feels like five new sock puppets.
Just to be clear yes saifanjahmal is one my accounts, I can’t delete or access it because I don’t remeber the password.
What are you referring to when you say “five new sockpuppets accounts”? I gave up by now, do you think I have any interest in fighting the windmills trying to improve OSM anymore?
If I had any left you all made sure I understood it’s a total waste of time.
Good luck and farewell.
At intervals of a few days, there are reports in several places in this forum about odd changes by (more or less) new users, all of which have the same editing pattern. All tracks lead to you! I lost count and have lost the overview of how many of your accounts have already been identified. (maybe @SomeoneElse knows more?). And you still ask why I have the feeling that five new ones appear for every deleted or blocked account?
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Thanks for being honest. What about Piero Tiziani (user_18567094) instead?
We know of getting on for 20 now.
I’ve also had a periodic look here and yes, there are “new accounts” popping up. I’d expect most of those to be genuinely new users though - we shouldn’t treat them with suspicion until we have some evidence that they are just more sockpuppets. It’d be unfair on genuine new users in Italy to not assume good faith, just because Martino is behaving like an arsehole.
Watch your language. I never called you names, even when I had every reason to.
< Thanks for being honest. What about Piero Tiziani (user_18567094) instead?
Yes, and I think there aren’t more, if I remember correctly.
Goodbye.
A user that creates an account, makes one set of edits and then immediately deletes their account (following a long-line of such behaviour) is not acting in good faith. If anyone needs any help reverting this please let the DWG know - email data@openstreetmap.org with a subject of “[Ticket#2023041110000115] [OpenStreetMap] deleted account”.